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#31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto
Posts: 3,085
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An environment wherein such pressure is lessened is one wherein testimonies need not be accompanied by the trappings of group think. If the approach to relating a testimony I advocated above were more common, the pressures of expectation or competitiveness could be lessened and then the stronger knowledge claims would have a more sincere air. That's what I'm getting at in my initial comment.
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. |
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#32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,177
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There is definitely pressure for members to bear testimony with powerful language. We teach our children to use "I know" in testimonies. There is no room for "I believe". It's not a case of me judging everyone's testimony. Testimonies are judged by the collective group through comments in Sunday School and Priesthood about the testimonies from Testimony Meeting. We are taught by general and local leaders quite often about how to judge a testimony, i.e. see Elder Ballard's quote in this thread and see Elder Uchdtorf's talk last conference. |
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#33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,016
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My intent was not to accuse and paint the discussion in extremes. I understood what you wrote in part and hoped for greater clarification.
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#34 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South Jordan, UT
Posts: 1,799
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I can agree with much of what you say. I can see how some might feel pressure to say "I know" when they merely believe. It's fine if you "just believe" and I don't think people should feel bad about themselves if that can't say they know the gospel is true. But then again, it is possible to know the gospel is true. As someone pointed out earlier, "by the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things". How exactly, as a philosopher, do you "know" that all knowledge claims are quite tenuous? Possible irony alert here?? ![]() |
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#35 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Bluth Home
Posts: 3,877
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As I think about what I am saying when I say that "I know" something, your point that I am repeating language from the BOM is clearly true. And yet, when Nephi says that he knows God lives, he means something different than I do. Nephi has had experiences with God and his messengers that I have not had. So if I say I know God lives, obviously I mean something different than he means. Based on this, I think it is not unreasonable for me to select different words. I don't see how this choice diminishes the clarity of what Nephi said. It is crystal clear to me what he said and I think it is pretty plain what he meant. On the contrary, I conclude that if I say exactly what he said that I either create confusion about what I mean or I minimize the power of what he said by adding to the perception that experiences like his are common. Once again, I recognize that not everyone will have this thought process nor do I assert that what I conclude is correct for everyone or actually anyone but me. On the other hand, I don't think that my own personal conclusions dilute or diminish the plainess of scripture. For the reasons stated I think the opposite is true.
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The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo |
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#36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,016
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I understood the original post I responded to as referring to the behavior of general members with regards to the language used when sharing a testimony.
I am satisfied with the greater clarifications offered in response to my thoughts. You have now addressed the issue on very personal terms. I have no desire to contend with your thoughts or feelings that frame your individual thought process. I can appreciate that thought process; however, the differentiation you site is not that obvious to me. Quote:
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#37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Bluth Home
Posts: 3,877
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Thanks for the clarification. I understand.
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The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo |
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#38 |
Board Pinhead
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah.
Posts: 15,941
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All I know is that the clock moves slower during Sacrament Meeting on the first Sunday of each month. Hunger causes that.
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"The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB. |
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