Word of Wisdom

[BlueHair]

Do any of you think the Word of Wisdom will ever be removed from the temple recommend interview? I have had this discussion with several friends and they all say no way. I think it may happen for the following reasons:

1. Many active members break it on a regular basis. When I go to 7-11 for my morning coffee, I almost always see somebody I know doing the same thing. I know at least 10 people with temple recommends that don't strictly follow the rules. I have to assume that this goes on in most wards and stakes. I would be interested to know how many people have the occasional drink (New Year's Eve, Las Vegas, wife's out of town, etc..).

2. The church is trying to become more mainstream. They hired a PR firm a few years to try to create a better image. One change brought forward was adding "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" to the BOM. Also, many talks have been given about reaching out and being friends with non-members. President Hinckley has done many media interviews to show Mormons are like everybody else. The "we're the only true church" rhetoric has been toned down. Relaxing the WOW seems like it would fit along these lines.

3. New income stream. Just think if the church could grow coffee. They are not building churches as much any more and are moving toward shopping malls and other money making ventures.

4. Tithing income may go up because members that are unable to go to the temple because of the WOW may not pay tithing either. If they were able to go, they may pay tithing more often.

5. Not enough "worthy" priesthood holders. If the people I mentioned in item #1 were honest in their interviews, they wouldn't be able to hold callings. That would put a heavy burden on the worthy members.

6. Studies have proven that coffee and green tea are beneficial to health even in large quantities. Wine and beer are both good in moderation. It's going to be hard to continue to convince people these things are bad for you.

I know many will argue the point that God doesn't change for man. I can think of a couple of times where he did. Blacks and the priesthood - The church was under heavy pressure to include them when the "revelation" came. Polygamy - The government was going to seize all the churches assets. The initiatory (sp?) work in the temple - patrons now are fully clothed at all times in an effort to make it a more comfortable experience.

I'm not sure how the change would come about. Maybe a talk in conference along the lines of "The Lord doesn't want to command you in all things".

Comments?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think it would be a great idea, but I am not sure what the liklihood is. Pretty small, I imagine. Here is what I wrote on the topic a couple of months ago:

============================

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I think we should revert back to the original "friendly suggestion" viewpoint regarding the WoW. I would like to clarify my comments a bit. Much of this has been said here before on CG, so please forgive me if I sound redundant. Let me also say that I have never struggled with observing the WoW, unless you consider Diet Coke and Mtn. Dew to be a violation.

One of the ironies of modern LDS WoW theology is that we are selective about which parts we honor. We get all uptight about tea and coffee but give no thought to hot chocolate. We also disregard the parts about herbs, meat, and selective use of grains.

I think an honest reading of section 89 indicates a revelation that is part inspiration (alcohol, tobacco, etc.) and part 19th century folk wisdom ("corn for the ox, oats for the horse, rye for fowls..."). It is also significant that it was given "not by commandment" but by "greeting" and it was directed to the "temporal salvation" of saints. This makes perfect sense since I don't think any of these items are inherently evil. Jesus changed water into wine at a wedding party for heaven's sake (a story that drips with irony on many levels)!

The real question for me is when and why did the WoW morph from a friendly suggestion to a strict commandment? I have done some research on this topic and I am convinced that although there were a few significant talks and "votes" on the subject, it was more of a slow, gradual shift in the culture of the church. As such, I think it is a real shame that some good people who struggle with WoW issues are barred from baptism and temple blessings. It just seems to be a huge departure from the original (and IMO more logical) spirit of the original revelation.

As for the Mosaic Law analogy, I respect that argument/viewpoint and I agree with the blessings of obedience. And as long as the church officially regards selected portions of the WoW as a commandment I will continue to observe it. But I will always wonder if we are giving obedience to God's will or to a more harsh interpretation/variant of God's will that gradually evolved in the minds of the members and church leaders.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

Do any of you think the Word of Wisdom will ever be removed from the temple recommend interview? I have had this discussion with several friends and they all say no way. I think it may happen for the following reasons:

1. Many active members break it on a regular basis. When I go to 7-11 for my morning coffee, I almost always see somebody I know doing the same thing. I know at least 10 people with temple recommends that don't strictly follow the rules. I have to assume that this goes on in most wards and stakes. I would be interested to know how many people have the occasional drink (New Year's Eve, Las Vegas, wife's out of town, etc..).

2. The church is trying to become more mainstream. They hired a PR firm a few years to try to create a better image. One change brought forward was adding "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" to the BOM. Also, many talks have been given about reaching out and being friends with non-members. President Hinckley has done many media interviews to show Mormons are like everybody else. The "we're the only true church" rhetoric has been toned down. Relaxing the WOW seems like it would fit along these lines.

3. New income stream. Just think if the church could grow coffee. They are not building churches as much any more and are moving toward shopping malls and other money making ventures.

4. Tithing income may go up because members that are unable to go to the temple because of the WOW may not pay tithing either. If they were able to go, they may pay tithing more often.

5. Not enough "worthy" priesthood holders. If the people I mentioned in item #1 were honest in their interviews, they wouldn't be able to hold callings. That would put a heavy burden on the worthy members.

6. Studies have proven that coffee and green tea are beneficial to health even in large quantities. Wine and beer are both good in moderation. It's going to be hard to continue to convince people these things are bad for you.

I know many will argue the point that God doesn't change for man. I can think of a couple of times where he did. Blacks and the priesthood - The church was under heavy pressure to include them when the "revelation" came. Polygamy - The government was going to seize all the churches assets. The initiatory (sp?) work in the temple - patrons now are fully clothed at all times in an effort to make it a more comfortable experience.

I'm not sure how the change would come about. Maybe a talk in conference along the lines of "The Lord doesn't want to command you in all things".

Comments?

I don't think God changed for man concerning blacks and the priesthood. The Church did, but not God.

As for tithing income, I'm not convinced that the Church is that concened about collecting more tithing money in the sense that there maybe more tithe payers. The Church's investments generate a lot of dollars. Tithing is more for the benefit of the tithe payers, IMO.

I've heard of benefits of green tea, but not coffee. Perhaps there are benefits that I'm unaware of.

[Archaea]

Observing the WoW is easy for me, but I don't condemn those for whom it is not.

I would hope they never relax the position on tobacco, as it is just a nasty, unredeeming habit.

Some have speculated it became part of the code by virture of prophetic foretelling of the sixties. I dunno.

OTH, we are distinctive because of this issue. Why would the Church let go of one of its primary hallmarks?

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I don't think God changed for man concerning blacks and the priesthood. The Church did, but not God.

As for tithing income, I'm not convinced that the Church is that concened about collecting more tithing money in the sense that there maybe more tithe payers. The Church's investments generate a lot of dollars. Tithing is more for the benefit of the tithe payers, IMO.

I've heard of benefits of green tea, but not coffee. Perhaps there are benefits that I'm unaware of.

I have read several articles on coffee. Here is one I read recently: http://cbs4boston.com/mallika/local_...177153341.html

I suppose there are probably many studies that would contradict this one. In addition to Type II diabetes, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, I read somewhere that stomach and colorectal cancer rates are significantly lower in coffee drinkers. I'll try to find a link to those.

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I think it would be a great idea, but I am not sure what the liklihood is. Pretty small, I imagine. Here is what I wrote on the topic a couple of months ago:

============================

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I think we should revert back to the original "friendly suggestion" viewpoint regarding the WoW. I would like to clarify my comments a bit. Much of this has been said here before on CG, so please forgive me if I sound redundant. Let me also say that I have never struggled with observing the WoW, unless you consider Diet Coke and Mtn. Dew to be a violation.

One of the ironies of modern LDS WoW theology is that we are selective about which parts we honor. We get all uptight about tea and coffee but give no thought to hot chocolate. We also disregard the parts about herbs, meat, and selective use of grains.

I think an honest reading of section 89 indicates a revelation that is part inspiration (alcohol, tobacco, etc.) and part 19th century folk wisdom ("corn for the ox, oats for the horse, rye for fowls..."). It is also significant that it was given "not by commandment" but by "greeting" and it was directed to the "temporal salvation" of saints. This makes perfect sense since I don't think any of these items are inherently evil. Jesus changed water into wine at a wedding party for heaven's sake (a story that drips with irony on many levels)!

The real question for me is when and why did the WoW morph from a friendly suggestion to a strict commandment? I have done some research on this topic and I am convinced that although there were a few significant talks and "votes" on the subject, it was more of a slow, gradual shift in the culture of the church. As such, I think it is a real shame that some good people who struggle with WoW issues are barred from baptism and temple blessings. It just seems to be a huge departure from the original (and IMO more logical) spirit of the original revelation.

As for the Mosaic Law analogy, I respect that argument/viewpoint and I agree with the blessings of obedience. And as long as the church officially regards selected portions of the WoW as a commandment I will continue to observe it. But I will always wonder if we are giving obedience to God's will or to a more harsh interpretation/variant of God's will that gradually evolved in the minds of the members and church leaders.

I didn't realize this had been discussed in this much detail (I'm new to the board). I really like your thoughts. It makes me wonder how often suggestions or traditions become "law" for the reasons you outlined. Now don't get me wrong, If God came down from on high and "suggested" to me directly that I do something, I'm pretty sure I would do it. I wonder why Joseph Smith didn't feel that strongly about the suggestion (he drank wine the night he was killed). If I knew I was about to die, I think I would follow all of God's suggestions. This leads me to believe either it really truly wasn't meant to be a commandment or Joseph Smith blatantly disobeyed. I prefer to believe the former.

[Venkman]

How many of us would keep the WOW if it was still just a friendly suggestion? I know I wouldn't, so it's probably a good thing that it's a commandment, at least for me.

It probably was elevated to commandment status because everyone was ignoring it. I believe the Lord got sick of it and directed His prophets to ratchet up enforcement a bit. I know that belief probably makes me a crazy mullah around these parts...

However, I do agree that some people take it's importance too far. I don't look down on people who have a difficult time with WOW observance.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

2. The church is trying to become more mainstream. They hired a PR firm a few years to try to create a better image. One change brought forward was adding "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" to the BOM. Also, many talks have been given about reaching out and being friends with non-members. President Hinckley has done many media interviews to show Mormons are like everybody else. The "we're the only true church" rhetoric has been toned down. Relaxing the WOW seems like it would fit along these lines.

There are different kinds of ways to move mainstream. I think the church is moving mainstream in its doctrine, as it discovers its true doctrine actually IS mainstream and the accentuating of differences only causes misunderstanding among its own members and in the Christian community.

I don't think it feels a reason to move mainstream when it comes to obedience and commandments issues.

Originally Posted by BlueHair

3. New income stream. Just think if the church could grow coffee. They are not building churches as much any more and are moving toward shopping malls and other money making ventures.

4. Tithing income may go up because members that are unable to go to the temple because of the WOW may not pay tithing either. If they were able to go, they may pay tithing more often.

I think you're probably being facetious, but the church having too much money is closer to a problem than the church not having enough money right now.

Originally Posted by BlueHair

5. Not enough "worthy" priesthood holders. If the people I mentioned in item #1 were honest in their interviews, they wouldn't be able to hold callings. That would put a heavy burden on the worthy members.

This concept is more interesting than maybe it seems at first glance. Men across the world struggle with a number of vices, especially WoW issues. Struggling with obedience is an important concept of discipleship, but could this be demonstrated in another way? By eliminating WoW, I would have baptized more adult men in my mission--an area starving for worthy priesthood leaders.

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I know many will argue the point that God doesn't change for man.

Comments?

I think most people will acknowledge that while God's principles don't change, the policy of how to administer them in the world and in the church frequently change.

[MikeWaters]

it would be a terrible mistake. it's part of our brand and identity. and I guarantee it will not happen.

[RockyBalboa]

lol...no. It's never going to happen.

Not ever.