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#1 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,367
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I say that because some of the material in conference seemed to specifically address the issue of what authority and role women have in the church.
In that sense Ordain Women is getting what they want--more of a conversation and more attention to the topic. I read in the Trib that for the first time the women leaders were seated with the 70s, instead of on the side like they had been before (I had no idea what the arrangements had been in the past, just like I had no idea that women hadn't prayed before the last conference). And that during my lifetime, women weren't allowed to pray in sacrament meeting. All that stuff seems really weird--like why is it all necessary? And if wasn't necessary, what else is going on that is completely unnecessary? These are strange times. The church feels roiled. Like it doesn't quite know how to respond to these social issues. First we were all-in on anti-gay marriage issues, now we are only half-in. And why aren't the leaders of the Ordain Women movement being disciplined? I imagine that the Apostles have decided that it is not in the church's interest to bring formal discipline. The publicity would be front and center. Everything feels like it is in flux. Are we going to stick with scouting? Abandon scouting? Where are we headed? What are we about? How do we remain (or become) vital? |
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#2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 3,005
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Just FYI, the seating with the 70s was Fiona Givens's idea, independent of Ordain Women.
http://mormonstories.org/alternative...-ordain-women/ |
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#3 |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
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Right now, no brilliant ideas have come to the fore.
It is not unusual for the Church to be late to a party such as the priesthood issue. In the past, social issues did not move with such force and alacrity. The leadership is not adept at innovating on the fly. The first big pushback was Proposition 8. Since that time, the Church has been on the defensive and has not won friends. And in the women issue, its own history argues against its current stance. You have the temple language, women blessing animals and the concept women will be priestesses. I know the Church roils against comments as to the age of its leadership, but in these matters the age is very telling. We only have one Uchtdorf.
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#4 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,367
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Seeing Boyd K. Packer on Sunday, I wonder if he won't be around much longer. He's almost 90 years old.
It's hard to know what kinds of discussions are going on at that level. There's probably some differences of opinions. Relying on consensus is probably the part that hinders change the most. But the counter to that it that it protects the church from the whims of the day. It took a long, long time for all of them to be convinced that blacks being denied the priesthood was folly, but they eventually came to that decision (Harold B. Lee dying may have been an important part of that, if you believe the McKay biography). I think I mentioned the Sltrib article that mentioned the church's internal polling showing dissatisfaction with the church among women. You'd never know that, for the most part, attending church. Because most of the very unhappy aren't there! There's lot of inactive women on the rolls. And it's not infrequent that we get someone on a new move-in report that's a woman, and when we make contact, we are asked to never make contact again. We just leave so much talent on the bench.....we are losing more games than we need to. |
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#5 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,367
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and without regard to chronological age, one of the very youngest, David Bednar doesn't come across any "younger" than anyone else.
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 3,005
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Despite his age, he is more conservative. He railed hard against plastic surgery at a regional conference.
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#7 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
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Uchtdorf gives me hope. Bednar does not. The Church does not seem to have any momentum within the US. I can't speak for outside the US, as I don't know if there is momentum of any significance anywhere. In many countries activity rates are very low and we don't have the wealth elsewhere that exists in the US. Maybe tithing will be raised to twenty percent.
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#8 | |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,367
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![]() Quote:
So much for "the surge". That's what happens when you have a large influx of very immature kids (relative to what you had before), without great planning on where to put them. Meaning you have a lot more missionaries now in areas that were considered tough (cause those are the places that we had pulled back from). |
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 3,005
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His article on convert baptisms per $ spent on missionary work is far more depressing.
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#10 | |
Formerly known as MudPhudCoug
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land of desolation
Posts: 2,548
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What an amazing workforce for good they could be if all they did was humanitarian work! |
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