If Obama were smart...

[MikeWaters]

....he would admit that the healthcare effort so far is going nowhere fast. He would give up this effort to ram it through congress with a bare majority.

He would say, ok, do-over. Republicans, give me a bill that expands healthcare for the uninsured.

The fact is, that the only way anything is really going to happen is if Republicans are on board. And by doing this, he makes the GOP actually come up with something that expands healthcare (and that is a win), or they fail to do so, and then Obama can say "give me a congress that will expand healthcare" and the GOP will continue to be the party without ideas.

Remember that probably the biggest reform in the govt during the Clinton years was welfare, and that was the GOP in congress and Clinton going along with each other.

If Obama continues on the current path, he sinks himself and the dems in Congress and probably doesn't accomplish anything for the uninsured. A lose, lose, lose.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

....he would admit that the healthcare effort so far is going nowhere fast. He would give up this effort to ram it through congress with a bare majority.

He would say, ok, do-over. Republicans, give me a bill that expands healthcare for the uninsured.

The fact is, that the only way anything is really going to happen is if Republicans are on board. And by doing this, he makes the GOP actually come up with something that expands healthcare (and that is a win), or they fail to do so, and then Obama can say "give me a congress that will expand healthcare" and the GOP will continue to be the party without ideas.

Remember that probably the biggest reform in the govt during the Clinton years was welfare, and that was the GOP in congress and Clinton going along with each other.

If Obama continues on the current path, he sinks himself and the dems in Congress and probably doesn't accomplish anything for the uninsured. A lose, lose, lose.

Astute and on point.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Astute and on point.

To the contrary, dumb and ignorant.

Health reform doesn't need the Republicans. You think the Republicans would do well as the party that filibusters health care reform? Let them filibuster. Just like let the Republicans shut down the government in the budget battle with Clinton. They'll lose. No matter the details of the policy, Republicans would appear obstructionist and forever labeled (forever politically, which means until the 2010 elections) as anti-health care reform, pro-insurance industry. They'd get slaughtered. The Democrats are going to pass some form of healthcare reform, and Obama will rejoice and be rejoiced.

Also, you forgot one small detail re welfare reform: Republicans were in the majority. lol analogy.

A truly idiotic idea for Obama to abandon the current effort and ask the Republicans to give their version of healthcare reform. The Republicans don't have a version. Remember how they bait-and-switched on the coops? They don't want Obama to reform healthcare under his watch. The want the power and glory. But their time has passed. Instead, they passed the prescription drug bill.

[MikeWaters]

Dems are on a course for political suicide. You don't see me complaining. Too much time on the coasts leads some people to think everyone is a liberal democrat...

Remember Clintons successful gun control legislation. Pyrrhic victory to say the least.

Dems are so stupid, they will forget the lessons learned yesterday.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Levin

To the contrary, dumb and ignorant.

Health reform doesn't need the Republicans. You think the Republicans would do well as the party that filibusters health care reform? Let them filibuster. Just like let the Republicans shut down the government in the budget battle with Clinton. They'll lose. No matter the details of the policy, Republicans would appear obstructionist and forever labeled (forever politically, which means until the 2010 elections) as anti-health care reform, pro-insurance industry. They'd get slaughtered. The Democrats are going to pass some form of healthcare reform, and Obama will rejoice and be rejoiced.

Also, you forgot one small detail re welfare reform: Republicans were in the majority. lol analogy.

A truly idiotic idea for Obama to abandon the current effort and ask the Republicans to give their version of healthcare reform. The Republicans don't have a version. Remember how they bait-and-switched on the coops? They don't want Obama to reform healthcare under his watch. The want the power and glory. But their time has passed. Instead, they passed the prescription drug bill.

Agreed. That would be beyond silly. The nation didn't elect Obama, and the states didn't elect 60 Dems to the Senate and a majority of the House, to hand health care reform over to the Republicans. What a total sham it would be to give the pen to Republicans at this point. THAT isn't what people campaigned on and received votes to do.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Agreed. That would be beyond silly. The nation didn't elect Obama, and the states didn't elect 60 Dems to the Senate and a majority of the House, to hand health care reform over to the Republicans. What a total sham it would be to give the pen to Republicans at this point. THAT isn't what people campaigned on and received votes to do.

Last time I checked they voted for persons not issues. Until a voter selects an issue at the ballot box instead of a personality, the approach you advocate is arrogant, condescending and often a death wish. It's the "I won get the hell away from me, I can do what I wish mentality" that distracts from any sort of statesmanship and good government. BTW, I hope Obama fails and takes your approach because your socialist approach to health care will not improve health care but it will greatly increase costs and access to certain kinds of care, all the while shifting costs to other sectors.

[MikeWaters]

GOP is at a big advantage right now because they don't have to offer a plan. They merelyu have to point out the problems with the plans that the dems have proposed.

The correct tactical move is to force the GOP to come up with a plan that can then be attacked. But if it is a plan that leads to universal care, then hell, sign the damn thing and declare victory.

A lot of this is about saving face. If Obama wants healthcare he will have to be willing to lose face. But really he wants everything on his terms, and that's why HSS Obama is taking on water.

Obama has a decision to make--is he Carter or Clinton?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

GOP is at a big advantage right now because they don't have to offer a plan. They merelyu have to point out the problems with the plans that the dems have proposed.

The correct tactical move is to force the GOP to come up with a plan that can then be attacked. But if it is a plan that leads to universal care, then hell, sign the damn thing and declare victory.

A lot of this is about saving face. If Obama wants healthcare he will have to be willing to lose face. But really he wants everything on his terms, and that's why HSS Obama is taking on water.

Obama has a decision to make--is he Carter or Clinton?

Obama is smooth but he seems arrogant as well.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Obama is smooth but he seems arrogant as well.

Why shouldn't he be? He was selected as the first black law review editor at Harvard. He was given a book deal for this mere accomplishment. He was groomed in the Chicago political machine for high office. He rolled into a Sentatorship and coasted right into the White House, with people literally worshipping him.

Umm, yeah, this is someone who is pretty sure that he is always right. He's been told this very thing his entire life.

[MikeWaters]

The sort of political judo I am saying Obama should do is basically impossible. I don't know how you admit defeat, but then re-engage the issue.

In short, Obama's next best move is to pass some sort of watered-down piddly little legislation, declare victory, and move on to issues with clear bipartisan support--like coming up with a plan for the war in Afghanistan. (what i mean is that there is bipartisan support for having some kind of strategy. Currently Obama has articulated none).