Waters, since we're self-flagelating,

[SeattleUte]

what do you think of all the Iraqi civilians being butchered since we occupied their country? True, it's not Americans doing this cold blooded murder, it's Muslims from within Iraq and neighboring coutries (imagine that), but I feel bad we opened this Pandora's box. I bet more Iraqi civilians innocently just trying to make it from one day to the next are dying violently since we invaded their country under false pretenses than before. I'd like you to address some of your moral outrage to this. We hear plenty of outrage about our soldiers, but not much about the Iraqi citizens who never signed up to die in war by any stretch of the imagination.

[MikeWaters]

Thank God. I read the article below and thought of you, and all your falsehoods, and what should appear is a post that whispers, and quite urgently, "QED."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...extracts/print

You are the self-hater. I'm quite fine with being a Mormon, I'm quite fine with me. But you can't help yourself, here in your old age, on a stupid Mormon message board, flagellating yourself in front of everyone.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...extracts/print

This reminded me of you in addition:

When my father, 45 years after the event, lay dying, sapped by chronic pain and humiliating dependence, he went over it yet again, as he had with me many times. "I fucked it up," he moaned. There was no absolution anyone could give him. All the other contributions he had made seemed outweighed by this ineradicable betrayal.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Thank God. I read the article below and thought of you, and all your falsehoods, and what should appear is a post that whispers, and quite urgently, "QED."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...extracts/print

You are the self-hater. I'm quite fine with being a Mormon, I'm quite fine with me. But you can't help yourself, here in your old age, on a stupid Mormon message board, flagellating yourself in front of everyone.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...extracts/print

This reminded me of you in addition:

True to your magic-world view, you have no respect for objective facts. The article you link is titled ironically, since the author, Mike Marqusee, is the "self-hating Jew" who proudly proclaims himself an "anti-Zionist Jew." He is, by common usage, an apostate Jew, since he doesn't believe in the Old Testament stories and is an atheist besides openly opposing the existence of the state of Israel. In fact, he calls himself a Marxist. To top it off, he lives in sin with a non-Jew, an Anglo.

Moreover, the phrase "self-hating Jew" was used by his father, standing roughly in the shoes you now stand vis-a-vis Mormonism and me. Mr. Marqusee has not repudiated nor does he regret the positions he articulated to his father (that Israel is wrong) prompting his father to call him a self-hating Jew. Indeed, the quotation in your post was not the "self-hating Jew" saying he "fucked up" for rejecting the religion of his fathers, as you suggest. It was the father regretting having "named names," i.e., identified fellow American members of the Communist Party to the FBI.

Did you even read the article? I'd have grounds for charging you with not having read it. But I suspect you did. I'm sure the article did make you think of me. I'm the one who has suggested here you are a self-hating Mormon for repudiating the state of Israel. Unlike you, I don't call myslef a Mormon while stating beliefs antithetical to Mormon faith. Yes, like those closet conservative gay baiting gays, you are wearing two hats.

To carry the true analogy further, it isn't entirely far fetched that I would say on my death bed "I fucked up" by teaching the priesthood ban and other pernicious nonsense rather than taking a stand against it sooner than I did.

As an aside, it speaks volumes that Marqusee still calls himself a Marxist. The man calls himself a Marxist and then turns around and calls Zionism bankrupt. Irony piled on top of irony. One man's bankrupt ideology is another's unified truth, I guess. How sad that he's still using the same idiotic analogies he used at age 14. That debauched picture of him speaks volumes.

Finally, I am not old. I am at the top of my game. 50 is not old.

[MikeWaters]

Moron, I read half your post. Of course I read the article. And of course it reminded me of you.

And of course there are Israelis and Jews that oppose the occupation.

You are a self-hater, that is why you are here. Prove that you aren't by requesting that I block your access to the religion forum.

Prove it.

[YOhio]

You guys need a new script.

Character A: You hate yourself. You're the self hater.

Character B: No. You're the self hater. You hate yourself.

Character A: Didn't you read what I wrote? I clearly established that you're the self-hater.

Character B: You really hate yourself.

Character A: You make a good point. I guess I really do hate myself. I hate myself because I am madly in love with you. Though I find you detestable, I feel an attraction for you which I henceforth cannot deny.

Character B: See, I knew you hated yourself.

Character A: Fuck off. We're done.