Bednar on taking offense--true or not? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 02-23-2008, 02:28 AM

http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/d...646-32,00.html

Quote:

When we believe or say we have been offended, we usually mean we feel insulted, mistreated, snubbed, or disrespected. And certainly clumsy, embarrassing, unprincipled, and mean-spirited things do occur in our interactions with other people that would allow us to take offense. However, it ultimately is impossible for another person to offend you or to offend me. Indeed, believing that another person offended us is fundamentally false. To be offended is a choice we make; it is not a condition inflicted or imposed upon us by someone or something else.

Is this true or not? I say no. I don't think it's possible or even necessarily good for someone to not be offended when someone is saying something offensive. If Rocky calls me a piece of shit, of course I'm going to be offended. It's not really honest or intimate with other people to pretend like nothing verbal would ever hurt you. Just like getting punched in the face. I can't choose not to let it hurt. It's gonna be painful. On the offense, I can choose how to react after the initial feeling of being hurt. I can react harshly or hold a grudge or refuse to forgive. That's what we have a choice in.

woot · 02-23-2008, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/d...646-32,00.html

Is this true or not? I say no. I don't think it's possible or even necessarily good for someone to not be offended when someone is saying something offensive. If Rocky calls me a piece of shit, of course I'm going to be offended. It's not really honest or intimate with other people to pretend like nothing verbal would ever hurt you. Just like getting punched in the face. I can't choose not to let it hurt. It's gonna be painful. On the offense, I can choose how to react after the initial feeling of being hurt. I can react harshly or hold a grudge or refuse to forgive. That's what we have a choice in.

I agree with your assessment. Refusing to admit to being offended is like refusing to admit ever experiencing temptation. The virtue is in reacting positively to a negative situation, not in pretending not to be in the negative situation to begin with.

MikeWaters · 02-23-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/d...646-32,00.html

Is this true or not? I say no. I don't think it's possible or even necessarily good for someone to not be offended when someone is saying something offensive. If Rocky calls me a piece of shit, of course I'm going to be offended. It's not really honest or intimate with other people to pretend like nothing verbal would ever hurt you. Just like getting punched in the face. I can't choose not to let it hurt. It's gonna be painful. On the offense, I can choose how to react after the initial feeling of being hurt. I can react harshly or hold a grudge or refuse to forgive. That's what we have a choice in.

if you found out, suddenly and with no warning, that your wife had been cheating on you for the past 5 years, it would be hard not to take offence, to not be emotionally devastated, to be angry and hurt.

I understand that Bednar would say that it is your own choice to have those feelings, but I'm not sure I agree. I think being human means that you experience things in ways you don't consciously choose. Or maybe that's not what Bednar is saying. Maybe he is saying that you shouldn't let such feelings devastate you forever. Not to let it drag you down permanently. Who knows.

Is it true wisdom, or is it pop-psychology that doesn't allow for the acknowledgment of true hurt? You be the judge.

il Padrino Ute · 02-23-2008, 04:16 AM

I tend to agree with Bednar.

I decided long ago that I would not allow what others do to dictate the course of my everyday life. I understand what you folks are saying, but ultimately I am the decider of my life.

I also believe that taking offense is the easy way to deal with something - especially with criticism. The difficult thing is to either ignore comments and not allow it to have an effect on us.

I don't think Bednar is talking about emotions. Taking offense isn't an emotion, it's a reaction, IMO, though I may be wrong about what taking offense is.

Indy Coug · 02-23-2008, 11:27 AM

Elder Bednar is 100% correct. He didn't say it was easy not to be offended in the most extreme instances, but the simple fact remains that our emotional reactions to words and actions are NOT involuntary.

UtahDan · 02-23-2008, 12:16 PM

I guess I would need to see it more fully fleshed out. On the one hand I do think there are some scenarios in life that for all of us are like being poked in the eye. It doesn't matter how much self control you have, there is going to be an internal emotional reaction. So I wouldn't agree that we can always control how we feel. I do know that we can control our response.

On the ohter hand if what he meant is that we can train ourselves to become people who rarely even have those feelings of offense and that this is a choice, then I agree. But I don't think you can ever completely eliminate feelings of offense.

Some people become so humble and Christ like that they are hard to offend. I am remarkably hard to offend but it is because I care so little what most anyone else thinks. Thick skin because of pride probably isn't what he meant, maybe I should work on that.

MikeWaters · 02-23-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Elder Bednar is 100% correct. He didn't say it was easy not to be offended in the most extreme instances, but the simple fact remains that our emotional reactions to words and actions are NOT involuntary.

Indy, if you sitting in church, and the Bishop got up and said "All you niggers and wetbacks sitting here, get up, and get out now and don't come back!"

Would you have an involuntary and or voluntary emotional reaction?

I would be furiously offended, and I don't think it would be possible for me to "choose" not to be offended.

Indy Coug · 02-23-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Indy, if you sitting in church, and the Bishop got up and said "All you niggers and wetbacks sitting here, get up, and get out now and don't come back!"

Would you have an involuntary and or voluntary emotional reaction?

I would be furiously offended, and I don't think it would be possible for me to "choose" not to be offended.

I didn't say it was easy, but it is indeed voluntary.

"The Devil made me do it!"

RockyBalboa · 02-23-2008, 02:28 PM

Mostly I think it's true. To me and I think a lot of other people equate taking offense the same as holding a grudge. When someone takes offense at something....how often does it stick around? A long time.

While I agree with what Mike has to say regarding incendiary and inflammatory situations or other situations that would blindside us, still I think in the long run, heck even the short run we can CHOOSE whether or not to remain offended.

ESPECIALLY whereas interaction among other members of the church are concerned.

I really do believe that there members of the church who are looking to be offended or find ANY excuse they can find to set them off, when in reality there are different underlying isses that are there, but where their anger or reactions were brought to the surface as a disguise for something else.

PaloAltoCougar · 02-23-2008, 03:38 PM

Introduce the element of time, and I agree with Elder Bednar. It’s nearly impossible not to react instantly to an egregious offense; that’s the fault of the offender. But over time, how I react is more a function of my self-control, ethos and desires than anything the offender did.

Forgiveness is far more important for the person that is offended than the offender. Often, the offender doesn’t even know, much less care, if he has been forgiven. But the person who stews over an offense allows the hurt to become a festering sore that does far more damage than the original slight.

That’s why I rarely post within a day or two after a BYU loss. I learned this principle more from Elder Crowton than from Elder Bednar.

02-23-2008, 04:16 AM	#4
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	I tend to agree with Bednar. I decided long ago that I would not allow what others do to dictate the course of my everyday life. I understand what you folks are saying, but ultimately I am the decider of my life. I also believe that taking offense is the easy way to deal with something - especially with criticism. The difficult thing is to either ignore comments and not allow it to have an effect on us. I don't think Bednar is talking about emotions. Taking offense isn't an emotion, it's a reaction, IMO, though I may be wrong about what taking offense is. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

02-23-2008, 12:16 PM	#6
UtahDan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Bluth Home Posts: 3,877	I guess I would need to see it more fully fleshed out. On the one hand I do think there are some scenarios in life that for all of us are like being poked in the eye. It doesn't matter how much self control you have, there is going to be an internal emotional reaction. So I wouldn't agree that we can always control how we feel. I do know that we can control our response. On the ohter hand if what he meant is that we can train ourselves to become people who rarely even have those feelings of offense and that this is a choice, then I agree. But I don't think you can ever completely eliminate feelings of offense. Some people become so humble and Christ like that they are hard to offend. I am remarkably hard to offend but it is because I care so little what most anyone else thinks. Thick skin because of pride probably isn't what he meant, maybe I should work on that. __________________ The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo

02-23-2008, 02:28 PM	#9
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	Mostly I think it's true. To me and I think a lot of other people equate taking offense the same as holding a grudge. When someone takes offense at something....how often does it stick around? A long time. While I agree with what Mike has to say regarding incendiary and inflammatory situations or other situations that would blindside us, still I think in the long run, heck even the short run we can CHOOSE whether or not to remain offended. ESPECIALLY whereas interaction among other members of the church are concerned. I really do believe that there members of the church who are looking to be offended or find ANY excuse they can find to set them off, when in reality there are different underlying isses that are there, but where their anger or reactions were brought to the surface as a disguise for something else. __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'. Last edited by RockyBalboa; 02-23-2008 at 02:40 PM.

02-23-2008, 11:27 AM	#5
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Elder Bednar is 100% correct. He didn't say it was easy not to be offended in the most extreme instances, but the simple fact remains that our emotional reactions to words and actions are NOT involuntary.

02-23-2008, 03:38 PM	#10
PaloAltoCougar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 580	Introduce the element of time, and I agree with Elder Bednar. It’s nearly impossible not to react instantly to an egregious offense; that’s the fault of the offender. But over time, how I react is more a function of my self-control, ethos and desires than anything the offender did. Forgiveness is far more important for the person that is offended than the offender. Often, the offender doesn’t even know, much less care, if he has been forgiven. But the person who stews over an offense allows the hurt to become a festering sore that does far more damage than the original slight. That’s why I rarely post within a day or two after a BYU loss. I learned this principle more from Elder Crowton than from Elder Bednar.