So I guess it really was about religion - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

myboynoah · 02-08-2008, 02:18 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1202..._editors_picks

I like this ending quote by Mauss:

"There will be a long-term consequence in the Mormon church," says Mr. Mauss, the Mormon sociologist. "I think there is going to be a wholesale reconsideration with how Mormons should deal with the latent and overt anti-Mormon propaganda. I don't think the Mormons are ever again going to sorrowfully turn away and close the door and just keep out of the fray."

MikeWaters · 02-08-2008, 03:06 PM

I don't think Mormons will turn away either. Instead many will just state bold-faced lies, whether out of ignorance or duplicitousness.

"that never happened"
"we don't believe that, never have"
"we're past that now"
"we don't talk about that"

SeattleUte · 02-08-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1202..._editors_picks

I like this ending quote by Mauss:

"There will be a long-term consequence in the Mormon church," says Mr. Mauss, the Mormon sociologist. "I think there is going to be a wholesale reconsideration with how Mormons should deal with the latent and overt anti-Mormon propaganda. I don't think the Mormons are ever again going to sorrowfully turn away and close the door and just keep out of the fray."

The dumbest thing Mormons could do is try to counter with "pro-Mormon propaganda." They'd be annihilated. If anything, what Mormons should take away from this is they should be less overt about revealing their self-identity as being so completely wrapped up in Mormonism. Think seriously about ommitting that mission experience from your resume or making it less prominent. (This is some friendly advice for you, and others like you, DJ Ross.)

Why doesn't any Mormon apologist (including non-Mormons like Mauss with a financial interest in being Mormon apologists) relflect about why those widespread negative attitudes about Mormonism exist. Our country is not pervasively evil. We've eliminated racism more completely than any nation on earth.

Waters has identified one very good reason for people to be turned off by Mormonism--the priesthood ban and Mormonism's refusal to take ownership for it and atone for it. This was the fact seized upon by Hitchens. Mormons better hope that articles like this don't become more widespread or it will just rile up guys like Hitchins.

Since when is it ignoble to oppose a candidate because of the content of his religious belief? Wouldn't that be reason enough to oppose Tom Cruise? Most Mormons and secularists whether they admit it or not oppose Huckabee purely because of the content of his religious faith. There may be other reasons to oppose him were they to investigate, but most of us stop at his religious faith.

Jeff Lebowski · 02-08-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Why doesn't any Mormon apologist (including non-Mormons like Maude with a financial interest in being Mormon apologists) relflect about why those widespread negative attitudes about Mormonism exist.

Who is Maude?

SeattleUte · 02-08-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Who is Maude?

I meant Mauss

ute4ever · 02-08-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't think Mormons will turn away either. Instead many will just state bold-faced lies, whether out of ignorance or duplicitousness.

"that never happened"
"we don't believe that, never have"
"we're past that now"
"we don't talk about that"

I do that sometimes when I simply don't feel like talking about it. For example at a small gathering of friends a few weeks ago I was asked if I wore the special blessed underwear. I said we don't have "special blessed underwear" and left it at that.

Jeff Lebowski · 02-08-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I meant Mauss

Aha.

For future reference, he is LDS and is anything but an apologist.

myboynoah · 02-08-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Why doesn't any Mormon apologist (including non-Mormons like Mauss with a financial interest in being Mormon apologists) relflect about why those widespread negative attitudes about Mormonism exist. Our country is not pervasively evil. We've eliminated racism more completely than any nation on earth.

You folks in Seattle must live in a utopia. I suspect I could find black people living within 10 miles of you that would take great exception to your statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Since when is it ignoble to oppose a candidate because of the content of his religious belief? Wouldn't that be reason enough to oppose Tom Cruise? Most Mormons and secularists whether they admit it or not oppose Huckabee purely because of the content of his religious faith. There may be other reasons to oppose him were they to investigate, but most of us stop at his religious faith.

I'll give you the secularists, but until you start re-attending the church of your fathers, your views on how Mormons feel and act remain very tainted. Mormons have readily joined with Evangelicals (and those of other faiths) when it made political sense. Huck crossed the line by attacking Mormonism. I guess you are saying this is okay, which opens the door to all other attacks in the political arena on what one believes or doesn't believe. The law prohibits such behavior in the workplace in hopes that we emulate it in the public square.

I love the Tom Cruise reference. Yet he gets work. I wonder why?

hyrum · 02-08-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I do that sometimes when I simply don't feel like talking about it. For example at a small gathering of friends a few weeks ago I was asked if I wore the special blessed underwear. I said we don't have "special blessed underwear" and left it at that.

So now your friends are confused, and someone will look it up on the internet and find out that you lied -- or, at best, artfully dodged the question. What will your firends think of you and your tribe then?

BYU71 · 02-08-2008, 04:21 PM

I agree with SU on something. Instead of balling and moaning about how everyone hates us and everyone who does is a biggot, why don't we analyze why 1/2 the country wouldn't vote for a mormon.

By the way, 45% wouldn't vote for an evangelist. My guess is people don't want a radical religionist in the White House.

Evangelists get painted with the broad brush of radical right wingers and mormons get broad bushed with the BYU image.

Perhaps that would be a start instead of everyone hates us.

A non member buddy of mine who married a mormon girl, whose boy didn't join the church and his daughter did and got married in the Temple said to me yesterday. You know, other people don't hate you guys as much as you hate each other. Seems to me you guys spend a lot of time judging each other to see who is the best.

02-08-2008, 02:18 PM	#1
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	So I guess it really was about religion http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1202..._editors_picks I like this ending quote by Mauss: "There will be a long-term consequence in the Mormon church," says Mr. Mauss, the Mormon sociologist. "I think there is going to be a wholesale reconsideration with how Mormons should deal with the latent and overt anti-Mormon propaganda. I don't think the Mormons are ever again going to sorrowfully turn away and close the door and just keep out of the fray." __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

02-08-2008, 03:06 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I don't think Mormons will turn away either. Instead many will just state bold-faced lies, whether out of ignorance or duplicitousness. "that never happened" "we don't believe that, never have" "we're past that now" "we don't talk about that"

02-08-2008, 04:21 PM	#10
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	I agree with SU on something. Instead of balling and moaning about how everyone hates us and everyone who does is a biggot, why don't we analyze why 1/2 the country wouldn't vote for a mormon. By the way, 45% wouldn't vote for an evangelist. My guess is people don't want a radical religionist in the White House. Evangelists get painted with the broad brush of radical right wingers and mormons get broad bushed with the BYU image. Perhaps that would be a start instead of everyone hates us. A non member buddy of mine who married a mormon girl, whose boy didn't join the church and his daughter did and got married in the Temple said to me yesterday. You know, other people don't hate you guys as much as you hate each other. Seems to me you guys spend a lot of time judging each other to see who is the best.