Church's political stand on polygamy

[jay santos]

I'm sure this is a topic many have hashed and rehashed and is very stale, but it's new to me because outside my wife I've never really discussed it with anyone and don't read much LDS fringe stuff on the net.

OK, here goes.

The church's political stand on polygamy seems to be at best extremely hypocritical and at worst a full admission that Joseph Smith was wrong for ever introducing polygamy.

Two major trends have opened the path that the church could easily make polygamy lawful again if it wanted. 1. The politically correct aspect of our culture going overboard with allowing every wack job their religious rights. 2. The ever increasing respect/clout/$/power the church has. Combine these two and the church could have polygamy legal in no time if it set out to do so.

But the church doesn't.

I grew up hearing that the church banned polygamy because we were being persecuted so heavily and they were putting everyone behind bars, and finally they decided to go along with the laws of the land. That polygamy was a higher principle and we will live it again someday. It's just that the world is too wicked to ever allow it again. But that was a long time ago. Times change. And the political climate has changed such that those teachings I was taught as a youngster are totally false now. The church could indeed bring out polygamy again if it wanted to, but it doesn't. (Ignoring the issue of whether or not God wants us to--for now)

In fact, the church has gone the opposite direction. We have now put ourselves in the shoes of the wicked world that was persecuting us 100 years ago. WE are the primary political powers that are trying to stamp out polygamy. The Fundamentalists, etc. try to live polygamy and the Mormons that run the state of Utah go overboard to stamp it out. Spend a lot of $$, go after people where maybe in another state they wouldn't even get that kind of pressure. In fact, there is a trend for the fundamentalists to leave Utah for this reason.

I am in no way a Fundamentalist sympathizer. I know no Fundamentalists personally and have no desire to even explore their doctrine or culture deeper. I'm just trying to look at this logically.

In public interviews with church officials, the church seems to be going overboard to distance ourselves with polygamy. Fifty years ago if you took a poll, I doubt if 1% of church members would call polygamy a mistake. I get the feeling from casual comments I hear from ward members, friends, or co workers that that a significant number of LDS believe it is a mistake, in fact a significant portion might even say that it wasn't just a bad idea but an actual mistake by Joseph Smith in misintrepreting the revelation from God.

Anyone care to comment?

By the way, nothing I said in any way causes my faith in Jesus Christ, the restored gospel, the truthfulness of the church, or the greatness of the prophet Joseph Smith to waver in the slightest. I hope it doesn't cause that in anyone else.

[MikeWaters]

I agree with you.

It's a little bit like the snake swallowing it's tail.

We have gone through a period (recently) where we have been very uncomfortable with our history. The church authorities have been reluctant to make records available to historians.

Times are changing. Old people die. New people come to power.

Mormonism seems to be headed on a collision course with modern secular life. As we become more accepted, and we ingrain ourselves further and further into American culture, do we lose our separateness and distinctness. Do we become just another Christian sect?

Hence my suppositions/observations that the general trend in the past 20 years has been to deemphasize Joseph Smith (I know not everyone agrees with this).

Inevitably, the pendulum will swing the other way, and there will be a winnowing. As Mormonism reasserts its uniqueness.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm sure this is a topic many have hashed and rehashed and is very stale, but it's new to me because outside my wife I've never really discussed it with anyone and don't read much LDS fringe stuff on the net.

OK, here goes.

The church's political stand on polygamy seems to be at best extremely hypocritical and at worst a full admission that Joseph Smith was wrong for ever introducing polygamy.

Two major trends have opened the path that the church could easily make polygamy lawful again if it wanted. 1. The politically correct aspect of our culture going overboard with allowing every wack job their religious rights. 2. The ever increasing respect/clout/$/power the church has. Combine these two and the church could have polygamy legal in no time if it set out to do so.

But the church doesn't.

I grew up hearing that the church banned polygamy because we were being persecuted so heavily and they were putting everyone behind bars, and finally they decided to go along with the laws of the land. That polygamy was a higher principle and we will live it again someday. It's just that the world is too wicked to ever allow it again. But that was a long time ago. Times change. And the political climate has changed such that those teachings I was taught as a youngster are totally false now. The church could indeed bring out polygamy again if it wanted to, but it doesn't. (Ignoring the issue of whether or not God wants us to--for now)

In fact, the church has gone the opposite direction. We have now put ourselves in the shoes of the wicked world that was persecuting us 100 years ago. WE are the primary political powers that are trying to stamp out polygamy. The Fundamentalists, etc. try to live polygamy and the Mormons that run the state of Utah go overboard to stamp it out. Spend a lot of $$, go after people where maybe in another state they wouldn't even get that kind of pressure. In fact, there is a trend for the fundamentalists to leave Utah for this reason.

I am in no way a Fundamentalist sympathizer. I know no Fundamentalists personally and have no desire to even explore their doctrine or culture deeper. I'm just trying to look at this logically.

In public interviews with church officials, the church seems to be going overboard to distance ourselves with polygamy. Fifty years ago if you took a poll, I doubt if 1% of church members would call polygamy a mistake. I get the feeling from casual comments I hear from ward members, friends, or co workers that that a significant number of LDS believe it is a mistake, in fact a significant portion might even say that it wasn't just a bad idea but an actual mistake by Joseph Smith in misintrepreting the revelation from God.

Anyone care to comment?

By the way, nothing I said in any way causes my faith in Jesus Christ, the restored gospel, the truthfulness of the church, or the greatness of the prophet Joseph Smith to waver in the slightest. I hope it doesn't cause that in anyone else.

Like the People's Republic of China the Church has decided its future lies with the mainstream of civilization if it is to thrive, even survive. Can you blame it? Do you really think that it wouldn't reduce itself to a fringe cult if it turned back to polygamy?

By the way, I was raised taught that polygamy was abolished by divine revelation received by Wilford Woodruff. The fact that the Church was about to become disenfranchised by the federal government (forfeit its real estate, etc.) was mere coincidence.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Hence my suppositions/observations that the general trend in the past 20 years has been to deemphasize Joseph Smith (I know not everyone agrees with this).

I'm sure this will horrify you, but I think you are correct in this observation. (I am in a better position than you to make it since I'm no doubt more than ten years older than you.) Squeemishness about polygamy isn't the only reason. The most compelling part of the Church's past is the story of the migration west and settling in the Salt Lake Valley. This bears a resemlance to the Hebrews' wandering in the Sinai and ultimate settling in thier promised land, and while some may say that as with the Hebrews' wanderings the history bears the gloss of myth, the essential facts are nevertheless indubitably true, and certainly make a compelling story. The Joseph Smith piece of Church history, including the scriptures he generated, is more complicated and problematic, in my view.

[JohnnyLingo]

I was under the impression that polygamy also served to increase the LDS population quickly at a time when there were relatively few members. It served its function, and was done away with.

Of course, I'm open to rebuttal.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I was under the impression that polygamy also served to increase the LDS population quickly at a time when there were relatively few members. It served its function, and was done away with.

Of course, I'm open to rebuttal.

I think we have all heard this theory but I don't buy it. It was practiced primarily by the church leaders. I can't remember the percentage of LDS men involved, but it was surprisingly small, compared to the pervasiveness one sees in the polygamous sects today. And it was practiced in secret for a long time. Kind of an odd way to go about boosting the population. And one could argue that the polygamy issue has probably been the single largest impediment to missionary work over the history of the church. If that truly was the objective, it seems like a dismal failure to me.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

By the way, I was raised taught that polygamy was abolished by divine revelation received by Wilford Woodruff. The fact that the Church was about to become disenfranchised by the federal government (forfeit its real estate, etc.) was mere coincidence.

You imply that the legal issues facing the church are some big secret that we withold from our impressionable youth. I don't recall EVER hearing it discussed without the context of the legal situation. In fact, the W.W. manifesto explicitly declares changes in US law as the motivation for the policy change. This is part of the D&C for heaven's sake.

http://scriptures.lds.org/od/1

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I was under the impression that polygamy also served to increase the LDS population quickly at a time when there were relatively few members. It served its function, and was done away with.

Of course, I'm open to rebuttal.

if so why would so few members be practicing?

if so why would they do it in secret?

if so why do we not talk about josephs other children?

this is simply an 'excuse' to make the practice seem practical.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by homeboy

You imply that the legal issues facing the church are some big secret that we withold from our impressionable youth. I don't recall EVER hearing it discussed without the context of the legal situation. In fact, the W.W. manifesto explicitly declares changes in US law as the motivation for the policy change. This is part of the D&C for heaven's sake.

http://scriptures.lds.org/od/1

This is just the way I was taught. Certinaly nobody rushed to highlight that the Church had a gun to its head. Maybe it was wishful thinking on my part. Under the Hebreic model for God knuckling under to pressure from Caesar seems a troubling response.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by homeboy

And one could argue that the polygamy issue has probably been the single largest impediment to missionary work over the history of the church.

This is the reason that I can't accept the "polygamy to increase membership" theory. Your statement was certainly true in my mission. It was the one thing that anybody in Holland and Belgium knew about the LDS church and they usually used that little bit of knowledge to completely dismiss anything we had to say.

I've often thought about how much bigger the church might be right now were it not for our history of polygamy. There's no way to know, but it's an interesting question.