I think the thing that I find pretty difficult about the church - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Mormon Red Death · 08-30-2007, 01:56 AM

is the fact that the normal guy doesn't have any redress when they disagree with those in authority. Stake Prez says it should be one way... that is the way its done...

danimal · 08-30-2007, 03:54 AM

I think that it's a pretty fair complaint. However, if you're not afraid of being loud and forceful, you can get some air time with those higher than the SP. But even in that case, barring an error that grossly violates church policy, you're probably out of luck.

DrumNFeather · 08-30-2007, 03:55 AM

It's kind of like disputing a grade in college.

First: Go to the teacher
Second: Go to the department dean...who then seeks the advice of the teacher on the matter.
Third: Accept the grade.

BlueHair · 08-30-2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

is the fact that the normal guy doesn't have any redress when they disagree with those in authority. Stake Prez says it should be one way... that is the way its done...

It seems the church varies greatly from stake to stake. Switching to a ward in a different stake might work. I know that is frowned upon, but might be worth considering if the disagreement was big enough.

Donuthole · 08-30-2007, 05:25 AM

Let me just say that I will not regret leaving my SP for a new one in a month when we move. Talk about a stick in the mud. I think SPs should be required to have, at a bare minimum, the personality of a styrofoam cup in order to hold the position.

jay santos · 08-30-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

is the fact that the normal guy doesn't have any redress when they disagree with those in authority. Stake Prez says it should be one way... that is the way its done...

We had a ward redivision recently that affected three wards. When it was announced it was done so by basically saying "the Lord has spoken it is now up to us to obey. How you deal with this change will illustrate your faithfullness."

There were some aspects of it that were very illogical, and part of it was to totally uproot a handful of families in a ward switch that everyone I talked to said was unfair and strange. All the women were bawling about it. Later I would hear countless stories about how the redivision committe was chock full of politicking. One family went to the stake prez to complain (i.e. give her side of the story). This family has basically now been blacklisted in their new ward when it comes to church callings.

Things like this are what I find frustrating about the hierarchy.

Goatnapper'96 · 08-30-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

We had a ward redivision recently that affected three wards. When it was announced it was done so by basically saying "the Lord has spoken it is now up to us to obey. How you deal with this change will illustrate your faithfullness."

There were some aspects of it that were very illogical, and part of it was to totally uproot a handful of families in a ward switch that everyone I talked to said was unfair and strange. All the women were bawling about it. Later I would hear countless stories about how the redivision committe was chock full of politicking. One family went to the stake prez to complain (i.e. give her side of the story). This family has basically now been blacklisted in their new ward when it comes to church callings.

Things like this are what I find frustrating about the hierarchy.

I am not a fan of invoking the name of God to justify decisions, I find it a form of Priestcraft. Saying that, the way members of the mormon church react to boundary reallignments demonstrates that the preponderance of the mormons with any testicular fortitude died at Martin's Cove or along Rocky Ridge and that fortitude is probably more nature than nurture.

The organization of the LDS Church mandates decision makers and leaders, which is no different than any other organization. At the end is it really any different for a guy or gal to say my decision is final because I own the most stock, the shareholders put me in charge or that God has spoken to me and informed me that this is the correct path?

Tex · 08-30-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I am not a fan of invoking the name of God to justify decisions, I find it a form of Priestcraft. Saying that, the way members of the mormon church react to boundary reallignments demonstrates that the preponderance of the mormons with any testicular fortitude died at Martin's Cove or along Rocky Ridge and that fortitude is probably more nature than nurture.

The organization of the LDS Church mandates decision makers and leaders, which is no different than any other organization. At the end is it really any different for a guy or gal to say my decision is final because I own the most stock, the shareholders put me in charge or that God has spoken to me and informed me that this is the correct path?

I agree. I think it's poor form for a local officer to announce over the pulpit, "This is God's will, so get in line." It's not to say that it isn't necessarily true--most leaders try their darndest to discern the will of the Lord in their stewardship. But it doesn't need to be presented in an "in your face" way.

Better to indicate to the membership, "we have tried earnestly to seek the Lord's will in this action, and we ask your support. We know it will be difficult; we encourage you to ask for the Lord's confirming witness that the direction we are taking is in accordance with his will."

Not too different, really, from how the general church works.

il Padrino Ute · 08-30-2007, 04:09 PM

Our stake made a few changes about 2 years ago. We had 9 wards in the stake and now there are 6. It was necessary to consolidate for a number of reasons.

When the announcement was made, the Stake President talked about the reasons all this was happening. He talked about how the plans for it got the okey dokey from the Brethren in Salt Lake. He talked about how they had prayed for help to make the correct realignments.

Not once did he say that it was the Lord's will.

The only objection I had was that it now takes me 90 seconds to drive to the chapel instead of the 60 seconds it took to drive to the other chapel. That's one entire minute less that I have to stay at home during Sunday School.

Indy Coug · 08-30-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

I agree. I think it's poor form for a local officer to announce over the pulpit, "This is God's will, so get in line." It's not to say that it isn't necessarily true--most leaders try their darndest to discern the will of the Lord in their stewardship. But it doesn't need to be presented in an "in your face" way.

Better to indicate to the membership, "we have tried earnestly to seek the Lord's will in this action, and we ask your support. We know it will be difficult; we encourage you to ask for the Lord's confirming witness that the direction we are taking is in accordance with his will."

Not too different, really, from how the general church works.

Or something along the lines of

'Changes have to be made. It's impossible to please everyone. If you're upset, we're sorry, but understand that we honestly tried our best.'

Of course, that probably wouldn't assuage the anger of most of those that really got bent out of shape to begin with.

08-30-2007, 01:56 AM	#1
Mormon Red Death Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Clinton Township, MI Posts: 3,126	I think the thing that I find pretty difficult about the church is the fact that the normal guy doesn't have any redress when they disagree with those in authority. Stake Prez says it should be one way... that is the way its done... __________________ Its all about the suit

08-30-2007, 03:54 AM	#2
danimal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Your mom's house Posts: 588	I think that it's a pretty fair complaint. However, if you're not afraid of being loud and forceful, you can get some air time with those higher than the SP. But even in that case, barring an error that grossly violates church policy, you're probably out of luck. __________________ Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...but it might work for us.

08-30-2007, 03:55 AM	#3
DrumNFeather Active LDS Ute Fan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nantucket : ) Posts: 2,566	It's kind of like disputing a grade in college. First: Go to the teacher Second: Go to the department dean...who then seeks the advice of the teacher on the matter. Third: Accept the grade. __________________ "It's not like we played the school of the blind out there." - Brian Johnson.

08-30-2007, 05:25 AM	#5
Donuthole Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 175	Let me just say that I will not regret leaving my SP for a new one in a month when we move. Talk about a stick in the mud. I think SPs should be required to have, at a bare minimum, the personality of a styrofoam cup in order to hold the position. __________________ Join the Prospective Utah Student Section today!

08-30-2007, 04:09 PM	#9
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	Our stake made a few changes about 2 years ago. We had 9 wards in the stake and now there are 6. It was necessary to consolidate for a number of reasons. When the announcement was made, the Stake President talked about the reasons all this was happening. He talked about how the plans for it got the okey dokey from the Brethren in Salt Lake. He talked about how they had prayed for help to make the correct realignments. Not once did he say that it was the Lord's will. The only objection I had was that it now takes me 90 seconds to drive to the chapel instead of the 60 seconds it took to drive to the other chapel. That's one entire minute less that I have to stay at home during Sunday School. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.