File this under the topic of the more things change the more they stay the same

[Jim Swarthout]

I was re-reading Bart Ehrman "Misquoting Jesus" this morning and found this passage from chapter one (p. 40) amusing. Ehrman is discussing arguments made by a noted anti-Christian named Celsus about the educational levels of early Christians. Celsus's comment, from the late second century, and quoted in Origen's response to Celsus are:

"[The Christians'] injunctions are like this. 'Let no one educated, no one wise, no one sensible draw near. For these abilities are thought by us to be evils. But as for anyone ignorant, anyone stupid, anyone uneducated, anyone who is a child, let him come boldly."

This comment reminded me of two things. First, when I arrived in my mission the monthly baptism rate was very high, but it turned out that the overwhelming majority of the convert baptisms were either children, teenagers, or poorly educated people who could barely speak English (I served in South Africa). Unfortunately, the mission had feasted on converts who were of low educational levels. Most of these converts were inactive.

Second, during my one trip to the Manti pagent there were a group of so-called anti-Mormons stationed in the street just off the southwest corner of the temple grounds. The ironic thing about what I saw that evening, and perhaps others have noticed this at other times, was that the only people who seemed to be listening to these guys were teenagers. I didn't see one adult stop and listen.

For me, it goes to show that Mormons and other Christians have a tendency to attract the uneducated as converts. I'm curious to know what percentage of you who served missions felt like you taught people who were of superior intellect? By "superior" I mean superior compared to the general population.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Jim Swarthout

I'm curious to know what percentage of you who served missions felt like you taught people who were of superior intellect?

If by 'taught' you mean 'somewhat humiliated by', then I suppose I can raise my hand here.

[fusnik11]

My MP was a nuclear engineer/scientist/doctor/genious, so he wanted us to find smart, educated, established citizens who could be leaders in the church. On a whole we baptized very little while the missions surrounding us on average quadrupled our baptism numbers.

For this I am thankful, I baptized few people, large majority are still active and I had families sealed in the temple while there, and since I have returned.

[JohnnyLingo]

My mission president specifically directed us to seek out those with education and good jobs. He believed the church could not stand on uneducated and poor people who would not have the time or ability to have leadership positions. Before he arrived, the first stake in the country had been created... on the backs of 600 baptisms a month over three months... 5% of those baptized during that time were still active when I served there. He used this scripture a lot:

D&C 58: 8-11

8 And also that a feast of fat things might be prepared for the poor; yea, a feast of fat things, of wine on the lees well refined, that the earth may know that the mouths of the prophets shall not fail; 9 Yea, a supper of the house of the Lord, well prepared, unto which all nations shall be invited.

10 First, the rich and the learned, the wise and the noble;

11 And after that cometh the day of my power; then shall the poor, the lame, and the blind, and the deaf, come in unto the marriage of the Lamb, and partake of the supper of the Lord, prepared for the great day to come.

So I spent my mission knocking on the doors of larger homes. Stopping people on the street who were well-dressed and appeared educated.

This is not to say we didn't baptize poorer people. Those who approached us or were interested because their friends or family were members were always taught. I had a very poor woman and her daughter baptized in my area because they sought the church out and walked three miles to meetings every week. Fantastic members, but not those we were looking for at the time.

At first I wasn't too comfortable with the idea of teaching the learned and relatively rich, but over time I saw that this was what the country needed. The country needed bishops and branch presidents and Elder's Quorum Presidents and Relief Society Presidents who could do the work they were called to do. It was amazing to see someone baptized just a few months ago get called as the EQP and flourish in that calling.

Occasionally we found those who were poor and uneducated who were incredibly gifted. One couple, Norbert and Yvonne, lived in a shack about half the size of my bedroom with their three kids. But Norbert was extremely intelligent and a voracious reader. He was friends with a recently baptized member and as we taught him he devoured everything we brought. He was baptized and became a very strong influence in the branch where he lived.

I'm sure we could have had hundreds of baptisms a month if we'd taught everyone we saw. But I came to believe, as my mission president did, that at that time the church needed capable and strong leadership. Once that foundation was laid, then the day would come that everyone could come to the table.

Those were my experiences. Take them for what they are worth.

[RockyBalboa]

My first baptism was an Orthopaedic Surgeon from China who'd defected to the U.S. and sought asylum in a US Embassy in Thailand. Eventually made his way to the Bay Area.

The most humble man I ever taught.

[MikeWaters]

If our MP had told us to only seek out the educated, we could go ahead and close almost every area.

Oh wait, they did close almost every area.

Never mind.

[Jim Swarthout]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

My MP was a nuclear engineer/scientist/doctor/genious, so he wanted us to find smart, educated, established citizens who could be leaders in the church. On a whole we baptized very little while the missions surrounding us on average quadrupled our baptism numbers.

For this I am thankful, I baptized few people, large majority are still active and I had families sealed in the temple while there, and since I have returned.

We had a change in MPs during my mission and with the new president came very strict requirements as to who could be baptized; basically an emphasis on families over singles. I think this was the correct path to follow since I was once assigned to a branch and was told to not baptize any new converts but instead to simply find the "lost sheep." Turns out there were dozens of single teenage converts who had turned up missing.

My companion and I in one area got to the point where we would selectively contact people on what we called "walk-abouts." We'd simply walk around the townships looking for signs of education (i.e. cars, well-kept houses). But usually people of superior education are not looking to make dramatic changes in their lives or, at least in Africa, don't feel the need to pull themselves out of poverty because they are not there.

[MikeWaters]

In my experience, both on my mission and in the states, it is the poor, detached from family, and single that are most likely to join the church.

I've done a pretty lousy job as a member missionary. I got a colleague to attend church a couple of years ago, and one of my med school instructors took a couple of discussions (this fizzled out when she found out I was serious about my engagement to Farrah ). That's it.

[Jim Swarthout]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

In my experience, both on my mission and in the states, it is the poor, detached from family, and single that are most likely to join the church.

I've done a pretty lousy job as a member missionary. I got a colleague to attend church a couple of years ago, and one of my med school instructors took a couple of discussions (this fizzled out when she found out I was serious about my engagement to Farrah ). That's it.

I used to live in a ward where during priesthood meeting the ward mission leader would ask if anybody had a "missionary moment" during the past week. Inevitably, somebody would stand and share an experience of sharing a pass along card, Book of Mormon, or a general gospel discussion with someone of a lower social class. In other words, Brother Christensen would talk about how he shared a Book of Mormon with his secretary, or Brother Sorensen would talk about how he left a pass along card for the person who cleaned his hotel room on a business trip, or Brother Mortensen would talk about how he hired some day laborers and gave them all some Spanish pamphlets with their wages. Of course most of the men all thought these were wonderful acts.

Don't get me wrong, I believe these guys were sincere. But something bothered me that the target was always someone who was inferior to the member in a social setting. I can't ever recall someone saying that they had a missionary moment with someone who was obviously of the same social or economic standing.

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by Jim Swarthout

I used to live in a ward where during priesthood meeting the ward mission leader would ask if anybody had a "missionary moment" during the past week. Inevitably, somebody would stand and share an experience of sharing a pass along card, Book of Mormon, or a general gospel discussion with someone of a lower social class. In other words, Brother Christensen would talk about how he shared a Book of Mormon with his secretary, or Brother Sorensen would talk about how he left a pass along card for the person who cleaned his hotel room on a business trip, or Brother Mortensen would talk about how he hired some day laborers and gave them all some Spanish pamphlets with their wages. Of course most of the men all thought these were wonderful acts.

Don't get me wrong, I believe these guys were sincere. But something bothered me that the target was always someone who was inferior to the member in a social setting. I can't ever recall someone saying that they had a missionary moment with someone who was obviously of the same social or economic standing.

Over the past year, I've given out three BofMs to highly educated individuals - I was in a serious auto accident last year about this time, and spent two weeks in critical/intensive care. One of the RNs who was assigned to me in critical care had a master's degree and was obviously very intelligent, and we had several gospel discussions and I eventually gave her a BofM. I also gave one of the residents who operated on me a Book of Mormon - he said he and his wife were looking for a church, and he noticed a copy on the stand beside me during one of his visits. He asked about it, I wrote my testimony in it, and gave it to him. Lastly, a work colleague with a PhD. who I'd become quite good friends with received one when he left the company.