the stake president in my parents ward had an interesting announcement

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

BYU71 doesn't like illegals in this country, and esp. does not like it when cities announce that they are "sanctuaries" for illegals.

Actually what bothers me is inconsistency and hypocricy. I am actually for the Bush proposal on illegals. I break on this one with my right wing buds in Utah County. Of course if it is economically good for Utah County, well you know.

It does bother me when a City proposes a no swimming on Sunday rule and yet says it is OK to break the law here.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by jay santos

It's not an issue of whether they can afford them. It's an issue of them making it to church and you telling them their offer isn't acceptable because it's they're not clean shaven or wearing nylons. It just isn't right.

My stake prez told us in priesthood leadership that we should wear white shirts and encourage ym to wear them when administering the sacrament. I can live with that kind of presentation of a white shirt rule. I've got an inactive deacon that wore a blue shirt last time he came. Over time I'll broach the subject, but I know the family and I promise you it's not something they need to deal with right now.

Exactly. It's more important that one be there than what color shirt one wears.

[MikeWaters]

what is the no swimming rule? You can't swim in your own pool on Sunday?

[Sleeping in EQ]

While I have no problem with encouraging people to dress respectfully, dwelling on appearances and throwing tantrums about white shirts isn't exactly supported by the scriptures (and tantrums, honestly, are what this makes me think of. It's like a three-year-old who is so insecure about his station in life that he gains a sense of his own worth by seeing if everyone will do what he says)

James 2:1-4

1 My brothers and sisters, do you with your acts of favoritism really believe in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ? 2 For if a person with gold rings and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and if a poor person in dirty clothes also comes in, 3 and if you take notice of the one wearing the fine clothes and say, "Have a seat here, please," while to the one who is poor you say, "Stand there," or, "Sit at my feet," 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?



Matthew 23:27-28

27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of the bones of the dead and of all kinds of filth. 28 So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.


Also, an old favorite:

Hugh Nibley (From Leaders to Managers: The Fatal Shift):

Leaders are movers and shakers, original, inventive, unpredictable, imaginative, full of surprises that discomfit the enemy in war and the main office in peace. For the managers are safe, conservative, predictable, conforming organization men and team players, dedicated to the establishment.

The leader, for example, has a passion for equality. We think of great generals from David and Alexander on down, sharing their beans or maza with their men, calling them by their first names, marching along with them in the heat, sleeping on the ground, and being first over the wall. A famous ode by a long-suffering Greek soldier, Archilochus, reminds us that the men in the ranks are not fooled for an instant by the executive type who thinks he is a leader.7

For the manager, on the other hand, the idea of equality is repugnant and even counterproductive. Where promotion, perks, privilege, and power are the name of the game, awe and reverence for rank is everything, the inspiration and motivation of all good men. Where would management be without the inflexible paper processing, dress standards, attention to proper social, political, and religious affiliation, vigilant watch over habits and attitudes, that gratify the stockholders and satisfy security?

"If you love me," said the greatest of all leaders, "you will keep my commandments. "If you know what is good for you," says the manager, "you will keep my commandments and not make waves." That is why the rise of management always marks the decline, alas, of culture. If the management does not go for Bach, very well, there will be no Bach in the meeting. If the management favors vile sentimental doggerel verse extolling the qualities that make for success, young people everywhere will be spouting long trade-journal jingles from the stand. If the management's taste in art is what will sell—trite, insipid, folksy kitsch—that is what we will get. If management finds maudlin, saccharine commercials appealing, that is what the public will get. If management must reflect the corporate image in tasteless, trendy new buildings, down come the fine old pioneer monuments.



I am not saying that your SP is falling into these things, I don't know him to begin with, but when there are so many real challenges in the world and Church, and innumerable acts of Christian service to perform, his going off on white shirts and being clean shaven brings such passages immediately to my mind.

And how would this white shirt business translate into, say, a ward in the Phillipines where members sometimes scrape to have enough food to eat? Not very well, I think.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what is the no swimming rule? You can't swim in your own pool on Sunday?

A few years ago, the mayor of Provo wanted to close public pools on Sundays in order to keep the Sabbath holy.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Gotcha. I just didn't understand where you were going with that.

And I'm easy to get my feathers ruffled at Utah County slams. I've lived here a long time, and most of the people don't fit the stereotype.

Lebowski, Coug Junkie, and I are the Utah County guys of CG, as far as I know. Compare that group to Lingo, Tex, and Indy all non Utah guys at the moment.

I too like Utah County, despite my shots. 4 of my 5 kids and their families live there. My siblings and parents live there. As a matter of fact when it comes to oppressing the people, Southern Davis County is probably far worse.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

And how would this white shirt business translate into, say, a ward in the Phillipines where members sometimes scrape to have enough food to eat? Not very well, I think.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I think it's important to note he didn't deliver the edict in the Philippines.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Tex

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I think it's important to note he didn't deliver the edict in the Philippines.

Agreed. If the SP said, brethern this has nothing to do with worthiness, spirituality or being a good person. This has to do with me seeing how much control I have over this Stake and I would like your support, I would have no problem with that. Heck, I would probably wear a white shirt for him.

I wouldn't shave the mustache though.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

A few years ago, the mayor of Provo wanted to close public pools on Sundays in order to keep the Sabbath holy.

I don't think Satan still has dominion over the waters. I believe I saw that one debunked on Myth Busters.

[Clark Addison]

A few years ago (mid to late 90s), I remember the church sending a letter to Bishops asking them to not make requirements for the deacons, such as holding their arms a certain way while passing the sacrament. I swear it also said that white shirts should not be a requirement. Does anyone else remember this? Is my brain making this letter up out of whole cloth? I hope not, as I have referenced it several times.