How do adults view their bishops?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

This sentiment you share is common, but is it actually deserved? Perhaps, but we are suspicious of service by those who are paid. Should we be?

The concept of leaders not being paid is a recent derivation. You are aware that the 19th Century Church saw stake presidents paid ten percent of tithing collections and bishops five percent and that Brigham Young was worth more than the Church when he died?

Whether a person is paid or not is of no moment to me, as I've seen dedicated paid clergy and nondedicated "volunteer" clergy so much that the distinction doesn't matter.

which kind of goes counter to the notion of "part of how I know the church is true is that bishops and stake presidents don't get paid."

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So am I to be suspicious of the motives of a woman who becomes a Catholic nun? After all, she is getting paid.

yeah, that Mother Theresa was a self-serving, selfish ....

[Tex]

Heh, Cardiac. You really stepped in it with these two. Good luck.

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So am I to be suspicious of the motives of a woman who becomes a Catholic nun? After all, she is getting paid.

Only if she's driving around in this:

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

No, I think teachers, doctors, and public defenders etc. feel called in a religious way and do a great service. Seeking compensation obviously isn't inherently evil.

But as somebody who is inherently pretty skeptical of religion, I guess I just don't understand and am inherently suspicious of anybody who chooses to make religion his full-time job. And there are so many examples in the media of church leaders who live high on the hog on the widows' mites from their congregations.

Maybe my bias results from lack of interaction with very many full-time religious professionals in the past. It's probably largely a result of my LDS upbringing in which I learned a model of volunteer Church service.

And your sentiments are probably widely shared within our Church culture, but in my opinion undeservedly so.

Paid clergy often go into it out a religious zeal, to counsel and to uplift, but they don't wish to be social workers or psychologists. They often get beaten down. Many clergy have very elaborate education in diverse issues on counseling, and from my perspective are doing so earnestly for the betterment of their congregations. A few television improprieties shouldn't dissuade us otherwise.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

which kind of goes counter to the notion of "part of how I know the church is true is that bishops and stake presidents don't get paid."

So of which iteration do they have a testimony, of the older, "pristine" church, the 19th century Church, the 20th century, post sixties church, the early 21st Century Church or the Church that will yet still be?

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Whether a person is paid or not is of no moment to me, as I've seen dedicated paid clergy and nondedicated "volunteer" clergy so much that the distinction doesn't matter.

Sorry but I disagree with this. Another absolutist statement that I just can't accept.

I'm not saying paid versus volunteer status is everything. But it's gotta count for something in my mind.

I like the fact that our local Church leaders have regular jobs. That's always going to be a positive in my book and I'll cut them a lot of slack in relation to their counterparts in other religions because they could be spending their time serving in the Church doing a million other more enjoyable and financially beneficial things (at least from my perspective, I know some guys really get off on serving in time-consuming Church positions).

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

which kind of goes counter to the notion of "part of how I know the church is true is that bishops and stake presidents don't get paid."

I would never say that. Hell, I'm not even trying to argue that Bishops and SPs shouldn't get paid. They probably deserve to get paid for all the crap they have to deal with and I wouldn't be opposed to that.

As somebody who finds time spent in administrative Church callings as painful as a trip to the dentist, I just think anybody who does that crap for free has won himself some credibility and respect in my book.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

Sorry but I disagree with this. Another absolutist statement that I just can't accept.

I'm not saying paid versus volunteer status is everything. But it's gotta count for something in my mind.

I like the fact that our local Church leaders have regular jobs. That's always going to be a positive in my book and I'll cut them a lot of slack in relation to their counterparts in other religions because they could be spending their time serving in the Church doing a million other more enjoyable and financially beneficial things (at least from my perspective, I know some guys really get off on serving in time-consuming Church positions).

As an economic model, reliance upon significant volunteer hours makes sense, and volunteers may be motivated less selfishly than paid participants. But you are not being nuanced enough, if you read anything more than that.

Even religious organizations with significant paid clergy rely upon volunteers, "Knights of Columbus" ring a bell?

You've admitted the source of your bias, a lack of contact, some tele evangelists make a spectacle, and what you learned in Church culture. Become involved with an organization involving the paid clergy and you may change your mind.

[CardiacCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

...volunteers may be motivated less selfishly than paid participants.

That's all I'll claim. Thanks for educating me on this topic.

Another point I was thinking about is that I'm probably underestimating the intangible personal rewards that many people (more religious than me) receive from serving in time-consuming callings in the LDS Church. Not to mention the financial rewards in a place like Utah or even elsewhere if your business benefits from the recognition you receive from being a Bishop or Stake President.