Bob Millet on grace

[All-American]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

And the question I always ask when this statement is made is

What if we don't do works? We're not saved, right?

In short, no. It's an answer I am hesitant to give without caveat, because it places emphasis on our works as the determining factor of our salvation, implying that we are saved by works. Our works enable us to receive grace, which does 100% of the saving.

If a master chef cooks up a banquet, we have to do some work to put the food in our mouth. I would sooner claim that, through the work of putting food on the fork and placing it in my mouth, that I had in fact cooked the meal than I would say that I am saved by my works.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Is it just difficult to comprehend, or are we unwilling to accept emotionally that we are crap and what we do is miniscule?

After trying meagerly to comprehend a scintilla of the eternities, I've realized we're crap, and emotionally I can comprehend that whatever I do is virtually meaningless to anybody but myself.

If it helps I felt bad for you when you crashed.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

You are what you are. If I were to offer up examples and ask questions it would lead to a 250 post thread where you thought in your mind you successfully defended yourself, but to the rest of the world it's obvious where you really stand.

Then stop making pretenses at fairness, and just admit you really don't care what I think.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

Then stop making pretenses at fairness, and just admit you really don't care what I think.

I was interested to hear your take on it. And if you were willing, I would have liked to hear an attempt to explain why you sound so legalistic in your posts but then say you belive in grace. But as soon as you start down the 250 post thread where you bounce around and play word wars, I'd rather just bow out.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by jay santos

“Too often we think of grace as the little cherry on top that is the last little step in our path to perfection.”

Tex, when I hear you use the word atonement, this comes to my mind. Am I being unfair?

Hmmmm...

I believe the grace we are able to see is just the tip of the ice berg.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I was interested to hear your take on it. And if you were willing, I would have liked to hear an attempt to explain why you sound so legalistic in your posts but then say you belive in grace. But as soon as you start down the 250 post thread where you bounce around and play word wars, I'd rather just bow out.

Well, well. If that isn't a "when did you stop beating your wife" question, I don't know what is.

"I'd like to hear your honest answer, Tex. But since we know you can't be honest, why bother asking? But I'm going to ask anyway, since I want to look like a open-minded guy. But don't answer, 'cause I don't really want to talk."

Okay.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RC Vikings

If it helps I felt bad for you when you crashed.

Yeah you were relieved you would be able to stop for lunch, that is all.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I was interested to hear your take on it. And if you were willing, I would have liked to hear an attempt to explain why you sound so legalistic in your posts but then say you belive in grace. But as soon as you start down the 250 post thread where you bounce around and play word wars, I'd rather just bow out.

Here's another place where I touch on my feelings about grace.

Originally Posted by Tex

I think God is an incredibly merciful being. He is also just, and I don't mean to downplay that aspect of his character, but I think we may just end up being surprised at how merciful he is.

Not that you're really interested.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I wouldn't say that's how Robinson puts it. It's not a formula of 1/x = grace, 1/y = works.

Grace and works are not independent variables.

[aaronshaf]

I sent Robert Millet this quote in March:

"[E]very man and woman will receive all that they are worthy of, and something thrown in perhaps on the score of the boundless charity of God. But who can justly expect to obtain more than they merit?" - Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, v. 20, p. 30.

He responded with, "Great quote. Thanks for sending it!"

I later sent him some quotes, including this following one, and asked him if he was at a place where he was willing to unequivocally denounce them as gospel-denying heresy.

"What then is the law of justification? It is simply this: 'All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations (D. & C. 132:7), in which men must abide to be saved and exalted, must be entered into and performed in righteousness so that the Holy Spirit can justify the candidate for salvation in what has been done. (1 Ne. 16:2; Jac. 2:13-14; Alma 41:15; D. & C. 98; 132:1, 62.) An act that is justified by the Spirit is one that is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, or in other words, ratified and approved by the Holy Ghost. This law of justification is the provision the Lord has placed in the gospel to assure that no unrighteous performance will be binding on earth and in heaven, and that no person will add to his position or glory in the hereafter by gaining an unearned blessing." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 408. Quoted without last sentence in official LDS CES manual Doctrines of the Gospel.)

He refused to denounce them and simply spoke of how he and his church were "emphasizing" grace and faith more, and that things were a "bit" too works-oriented before.