Now I know why mormonwiki.org sucks

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

??????????????????????? I am guessing you don't know what evangelicals believe. Either that or you choose to ignore the profound differences.

Try me. What differences do you consider profound?

Authority/priesthood: certainly that is a major difference. But to me this is not a major doctrine. Major doctrine is concerning God and salvation.

God/man issue: Pres. Hinckley said on this: "We don't talk about it a lot, and we don't really know much about it." I'll take him at face value on that one. I don't hear God/man issues being talked about in general conference or in church manuals, so I'm going to consider it not imortant to my salvation and therefore not something I would call a profound difference.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Authority/priesthood: certainly that is a major difference. But to me this is not a major doctrine. Major doctrine is concerning God and salvation.

So you think God felt the need to send heavenly beings to restore a mere trifle?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Try me. What differences do you consider profound?

Authority/priesthood: certainly that is a major difference. But to me this is not a major doctrine. Major doctrine is concerning God and salvation.

God/man issue: Pres. Hinckley said on this: "We don't talk about it a lot, and we don't really know much about it." I'll take him at face value on that one. I don't hear God/man issues being talked about in general conference or in church manuals, so I'm going to consider it not imortant to my salvation and therefore not something I would call a profound difference.

How about this one: are saving ordinances necessary?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

And a lot of work, pouring through historical documents searching for zingers to challenge Evangelical faith. Hmmmm, I don't know.

Evangelicals of the world (including you, Aaron), I just don't know that I have it in me to commit to a long-term relationship by doing the heavy lifting needed to trash those things that you consider sacred. Using that as a measure, I guess what I'm trying to say, and believe me, this hurts me more that it hurts you, I just don't love you like you love me.

But we can still be friends.

Yaaa boooyeeee, that Muh-Lad connection of yers is shining through. Next time you out in Oneida County we could have a Danite Pow-Wow at the County Border atop ol Roy Summit...we will defend the sanctity of our fellow Brighamites.

I have no desire to argue with them about their beliefs and my lack of Christlike love shows through when I just choose to mock them.

Now if they say something unsacred like the National Championship of 1984 is Mythical, all hell would break loose.

[MikeWaters]

Yes, if Aaronshaf says anything derogatory about the 1984 National Championship, fuggidaboutit. Eternal ban fo sho. (sorry to mix mafia with hip-hop, it's a failing of mine).

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How about this one: are saving ordinances necessary?

I tend to agree with Jay Santos. At the root of it they are Christians and genuinely believe they are doing us good with their endeavors, for whatever reason it may be. I genuinely believe that all who trully love Christ will accept the fullness of his Gospel, whatever that includes and means, and will enter into those saving ordinances required. If Mike and I are comps in the afterlife teaching Brother Aaron Shaff the restored truths my guess is he will accept it and all saving ordinances that are required. I also believe he will never once even affiliate what he is accepting with Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon. However, I reserve the right to clip him once upside the head........

I like to quote President Gordon B. Hinckly who said: "Pride is concerned with who is right, humility is concerned with what is right."

I also like to quote the venerated PaloAltoCougar who once said: "Boobs are in!"

So even with the falsies Gents and Ladies, all is well..all is well!

[MikeWaters]

I know what Jay is saying. Belief in Christ, faith, good works (although Jay may not agree with good works, nor Aaronshaf, who knows). Love your neighbor, etc.

This is the core of Christianity. But to say that is really all that is necessary is to also argue that we need not share the restored gospel. Because it's just garnish. Who eats parsley anyway?

And that's where I disagree.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I also like to quote the venerated PaloAltoCougar who once said: "Boobs are in!"

I don't care who is right, but I do care what is right, Palo was quoting you when he said that. At least the time he told me that.

BTW, boobs, butts and everything else good on a woman are in!

[jay santos]

Here's my response to Mike and a couple others challenging what I mean by the doctrinal differences between Mormons and evangelicals being minor.

I believe Evangelical doctrine can be described as being a subset of Mormon doctrine.

The Mormon church is what you get when you take Evangelical doctrine on Christ and put in a structure of government.

Living prophet, ordinances, temples, etc. is what you get as a result of the government structure of God's true church. I think all of it would flow logically from an Evangelical doctrinal point of view if you were to add the concept of God's true church managed by God and a living prophet. Therefore, I don't see that difference as being major.

The next major difference is what I call what happened more than 10,000 years ago and what will happen 10,000 years from now. That's the issue on what God was before he was God and what man will become next. I don't view that as an important doctrine as Pres. Hinckley said "We don't really know much about it and we don't talk about it a lot." And if you've been listening to conference and reading church manuals for the last ten years, that is exactly true. So I'm not going to call anything Pres. Hinckley said we don't really know much about and we don't talk about it much as a MAJOR doctrinal point.

I listen to Christian radio and read Christian popular authors and I can't say I've ever heard anything that wouldn't fit in perfectly at an LDS sacrament meeting (unless the topic is how evil Mormon doctrine is of course). I don't know how I can spend hundreds of hours listening or reading Christian stuff and never hear anything that conflicts with the Mormon church and come to the conclusion that we have major doctrinal conflicts.

Atonement, Faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. To me, that's all that I call important when it comes to church doctrine. Everything else just supports those principles. That subset of the doctrine of Christ of everything Mormons believe is the crux of everything and it's also what we share in common with Evangelicals.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Here's my response to Mike and a couple others challenging what I mean by the doctrinal differences between Mormons and evangelicals being minor.

I believe Evangelical doctrine can be described as being a subset of Mormon doctrine.

The Mormon church is what you get when you take Evangelical doctrine on Christ and put in a structure of government.

Living prophet, ordinances, temples, etc. is what you get as a result of the government structure of God's true church. I think all of it would flow logically from an Evangelical doctrinal point of view if you were to add the concept of God's true church managed by God and a living prophet. Therefore, I don't see that difference as being major.

The next major difference is what I call what happened more than 10,000 years ago and what will happen 10,000 years from now. That's the issue on what God was before he was God and what man will become next. I don't view that as an important doctrine as Pres. Hinckley said "We don't really know much about it and we don't talk about it a lot." And if you've been listening to conference and reading church manuals for the last ten years, that is exactly true. So I'm not going to call anything Pres. Hinckley said we don't really know much about and we don't talk about it much as a MAJOR doctrinal point.

I listen to Christian radio and read Christian popular authors and I can't say I've ever heard anything that wouldn't fit in perfectly at an LDS sacrament meeting (unless the topic is how evil Mormon doctrine is of course). I don't know how I can spend hundreds of hours listening or reading Christian stuff and never hear anything that conflicts with the Mormon church and come to the conclusion that we have major doctrinal conflicts.

Atonement, Faith in Christ, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. To me, that's all that I call important when it comes to church doctrine. Everything else just supports those principles. That subset of the doctrine of Christ of everything Mormons believe is the crux of everything and it's also what we share in common with Evangelicals.

Evangelicals often believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.

We categorically reject that belief and we find much of it allegorical, not historical fact.