Sharing spiritual experiences in church

[MikeWaters]

There may be the notion that in a democratic church where everyone can receive personal revelation, we should all be having the same experiences. Therefore off-putting if someone says they saw Christ in a dream. The scriptures, however, are very clear that different people have different gifts. If people with gifts of the Spirit don't share them, what good do they do us?

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The early leaders shared experiences quite commonly. However, it seems as a leadership we have steered clear of them. In part, to look ecumenical, and in part to preserve sanctity, and maybe to conceal the part that we're not spiritual enough to have them.

Finally, I wonder if, given the conditions and times, that they are NOT what we need, but instead the more subtle assurances such as the still small voice of Elijah.

I have never bought the whole "too sacred to share" thing. If it happens, why would it not be shared?

All sorts of signs and miracles followed the early church and particularly Joseph Smith. All of the leaders of that generation very candidly spoke about and recorded in their journals dreams they had and visions they had seen. This seemed like the normal thing. Joseph particularly seemed to have a sense of humor about the fact that it was hard for people to be believe and he seemed to understand why. Nevertheless, he put his experiences out there and people believed him at least in part because he believed what he was saying. The gifts of the spirit were abundant in those days.

I have no idea why it should be, but I don't think they are abundant anymore. I think that GBH has been very candid about not having seen diety and has also said that revelation consists almost exclusively of his thoughts being guided. I have no problem with this, but I just don't think we are the church of miracles that we used to be. I am troubled by this and wonder if it means that we have lost God's favor as a group much as other groups in the BOM did. Seriously.

When Joseph encountered the mostly protestants of his day, they were a group of people who believed that most everything important had been recieved long ago and looked backwards to a time when the dead were raised, when leppers were cleansed and when the lame were made to walk. His message to them was that heaven was still accessible and signs and wonders accompanied him to prove it. Aren't we at least a little like the people of that day? Don't we think that the restoration came more or less in one shot and that little important has come lately? Do any of us really expect to see miracles, signs or wonders? If Joseph taught that such things would follow the church of God, why don't they anymore?

I don't know the answers but it troubles me. Maybe I expect to much, but as I said in the beginning, most or all of the explanations are self serving or self incapsulating. I'm worried that we are heading down the slope of a BOM down cycle. Someone cheer me up.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I have never bought the whole "too sacred to share" thing. If it happens, why would it not be shared?

All sorts of signs and miracles followed the early church and particularly Joseph Smith. All of the leaders of that generation very candidly spoke about and recorded in their journals dreams they had and visions they had seen. This seemed like the normal thing. Joseph particularly seemed to have a sense of humor about the fact that it was hard for people to be believe and he seemed to understand why. Nevertheless, he put his experiences out there and people believed him at least in part because he believed what he was saying. The gifts of the spirit were abundant in those days.

I have no idea why it should be, but I don't think they are abundant anymore. I think that GBH has been very candid about not having seen diety and has also said that revelation consists almost exclusively of his thoughts being guided. I have no problem with this, but I just don't think we are the church of miracles that we used to be. I am troubled by this and wonder if it means that we have lost God's favor as a group much as other groups in the BOM did. Seriously.

When Joseph encountered the mostly protestants of his day, they were a group of people who believed that most everything important had been recieved long ago and looked backwards to a time when the dead were raised, when leppers were cleansed and when the lame were made to walk. His message to them was that heaven was still accessible and signs and wonders accompanied him to prove it. Aren't we at least a little like the people of that day? Don't we think that the restoration came more or less in one shot and that little important has come lately? Do any of us really expect to see miracles, signs or wonders? If Joseph taught that such things would follow the church of God, why don't they anymore?

I don't know the answers but it troubles me. Maybe I expect to much, but as I said in the beginning, most or all of the explanations are self serving or self incapsulating. I'm worried that we are heading down the slope of a BOM down cycle. Someone cheer me up.

I wonder the same.

I have never met anybody claiming to have seen God. Even our modern prophet does not make that claim. It seems odd.

I have not heard of miraculous occurrences very often. Have we as a people ceased being worthy of any of his graces?

It does seem odd, without meaning to cast too lugubrious of a shadow over it.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I wonder the same.

I have never met anybody claiming to have seen God. Even our modern prophet does not make that claim. It seems odd.

I have not heard of miraculous occurrences very often. Have we as a people ceased being worthy of any of his graces?

It does seem odd, without meaning to cast too lugubrious of a shadow over it.

Whatever. That whole post was an elaborate set up for you to bust out "lugubrious." ;-)

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I wonder the same.

I have never met anybody claiming to have seen God. Even our modern prophet does not make that claim. It seems odd.

I have not heard of miraculous occurrences very often. Have we as a people ceased being worthy of any of his graces?

It does seem odd, without meaning to cast too lugubrious of a shadow over it.

I've never had a vision of God.The only person I've ever met who claimed to meet God face-to-face was a plumber who also offered to heal my handicapped son. His business card misspelled the word plumber.

With people like this in the world, it's no wonder no one would admit to an Elijah-style experience.

In my 29.75 years (I refuse to turn 30 next month.), I have had only two significant spiritual revelations. So I don't consider these commonplace.

Even so, if I'm average, in a congregation of several hundred, someone should be having such an experience each month, and yet we never hear of them.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Along the same lines, I think there were some members that were very offended when someone in the media asked the prophet if he had seen God.

I wonder why if the prophet or an apostle that has had such an experience, might feel constrained to never speak of it or deny it. Versus proclaim it.

Are we living in a time when our apostles don't feel comfortable saying such things? Or is it more the sense that they don't happen? I think that GBH has implied or said that he has not seen God or Christ, which I am perfectly comfortable with.

However, I am getting a bit astray from my original post. Which was someone sharing a tender experience.

Go to South America.... I met a lot of people on my mission who have had visions...I don't want to make fun of your ward member but for some reasons latinos have spiritual experiences like this and they like to tell people about them...

[ute4ever]

I attend a congregation exclusively for singles. Although we are allegedly there first and foremost to worship and secondly to befriend fellow singles, there is some competition and backbiting that creeps up amongst one another.

As a result, when people share spiritual experiences either at the podium or in class, I hear a fair amount of murmuring, people saying he/she was just trying to make himself look spiritual and desirable; the catch of the day.

To each their own.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I have never met anybody claiming to have seen God. Even our modern prophet does not make that claim. It seems odd.

I've met a few. On my mission.

We knocked on the door one day and this nice man let us in and we started teaching him the first discussion. We covered the first vision and asked him what he thought.

Him: "Oh, I believe you 100%"
Us: "Is that right?"
Him: "Yes, I have seen God myself?"
Us: "Really?"
Him: "Yeah, just the other day. He was standing right there by my nightstand. He is about two feet tall."
Us: "Ummm... OK."

After a few minutes and a few more "experiences" shared by our new friend, it was obvious that he was off his meds.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I've met a few. On my mission.

We knocked on the door one day and this nice man let us in and we started teaching him the first discussion. We covered the first vision and asked him what he thought.

Him: "Oh, I believe you 100%"
Us: "Is that right?"
Him: "Yes, I have seen God myself?"
Us: "Really?"
Him: "Yeah, just the other day. He was standing right there by my nightstand. He is about two feet tall."
Us: "Ummm... OK."

After a few minutes and a few more "experiences" shared by our new friend, it was obvious that he was off his meds.

In Germany, it is a modern miracle to find a person who believes God even exists, let alone experiencing miraculous visions and the like.

No, the wards where I have found myself usually find it miraculous to find lost car keys. And sometimes it is.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I've met a few. On my mission.

We knocked on the door one day and this nice man let us in and we started teaching him the first discussion. We covered the first vision and asked him what he thought.

Him: "Oh, I believe you 100%"
Us: "Is that right?"
Him: "Yes, I have seen God myself?"
Us: "Really?"
Him: "Yeah, just the other day. He was standing right there by my nightstand. He is about two feet tall."
Us: "Ummm... OK."

After a few minutes and a few more "experiences" shared by our new friend, it was obvious that he was off his meds.

That's hilarious.

Odd, though, I always imagined God to be a little bigger than 24". Shows you how much I know...