Greek Mythology

[BlueHair]

Since I'm too dumb and lazy to research this on my own, I'm hoping for a little help. When and why were the Greek Gods downgraded to myth status? Greek Mythology seems silly to the world today, but it doesn't seem any more far-fetched than any other religious belief. So I'm curious why other religious traditions have made it this long, but not Mythology.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

Since I'm too dumb and lazy to research this on my own, I'm hoping for a little help. When and why were the Greek Gods downgraded to myth status? Greek Mythology seems silly to the world today, but it doesn't seem any more far-fetched than any other religious belief. So I'm curious why other religious traditions have made it this long, but not Mythology.

It’s a complicated question. On the one had, it’s straightforward enough to answer that after the Roman emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD, “paganism” was doomed to die out. Save one emperor (Julian the Apostate), all the rest were Christian.

On the other hand, it’s tough to know whether or not the Greeks ever really “believed” their myths – at least the fantastic or supernatural elements of them. Paul Veyne has written a book on this, appropriately titled, Did the Greeks Believe in Their Myths? (Chicago: 1988; a translation of his 1983 Les Grecs ont-ils cru à leurs mythes?)

As early as Xenophanes, in the sixth century BC, Greeks questioned the idea of anthropomorphic gods. Xenophanes wrote that if horses could paint or sculpt, they would make gods that looked like horses.

Early Greek “mythographers” tended to cast a skeptical eye on the traditional stories of the gods and heroes. Herodorus, for instance, who lived in the late 5th/early 4th century BC, rationalized the myths as allegories and analogies. Palaephatus, who probably lived in the 4th century BC, wrote an entire book that rationalized the popular myths. His convoluted explanations are sometimes more bizarre than the actual myths. [example: Palaephatus’ version of the Perseus story portrays Perseus as a pirate, with a ship called “Gorgon” that tries to plunder a village, but the people leave stones to fool him and run away. This is why people claim that Perseus used gorgon to turn people to stone.]

In addition, most ancient Greek philosophers seem to have disbelieved the traditional tales of the gods, since these gods acted so human (and therefore were incapable of being the paragons of virtue that gods should be). While they believed in god(s), they tended to downplay the traditional stories found in Homer and other myths.

So, one could argue that the Greeks have never believed their own myths – at least, not all the Greeks believed them. Nevertheless, there were other levels of religion besides the big festivals to the Olympian gods, and IMO these garnered more habitual devotion from ordinary people. Plus, there were mystery cults (e.g. Mithras, Sol Invictus, Eleusinian Mysteries, Orphics) that clearly had a more personal appeal than the larger rituals.

Finally, the idea of religious "belief" like we have today would be pretty foreign to an ancient Greek or Roman. Religion was a state and private affair, and polytheists could afford to respect whatever gods they felt like that day. Plus, there was an overwhelming notion (esp. in Rome) that if all the ceremonies were carried out properly, the gods wouldn't necessarily "bless" you - they would just leave you alone. That's all one could ask for.

Sorry about the long answer, but it’s really quite a complicated question.

[il Padrino Ute]

All I can say is that had Greek mythology never existed, we never would have had the cinematic quasi-masterpiece Clash of the Titans.

My best friend growing up and I took his younger brother (who was in junior high at the time) to see it at the Villa Theater. Their mother objected because a neighbor had said the film contained "objectional material" (aka partial nudity) until my friend's younger brother told his Mom that he was supposed to see it for English class as they were studying Greek mythology.

He bragged to his friends for weeks that he got to see boobs on the screen.

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by Solon

It’s a complicated question. On the one had, it’s straightforward enough to answer that after the Roman emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD, “paganism” was doomed to die out. Save one emperor (Julian the Apostate), all the rest were Christian.

On the other hand, it’s tough to know whether or not the Greeks ever really “believed” their myths – at least the fantastic or supernatural elements of them. Paul Veyne has written a book on this, appropriately titled, Did the Greeks Believe in Their Myths? (Chicago: 1988; a translation of his 1983 Les Grecs ont-ils cru à leurs mythes?)

As early as Xenophanes, in the sixth century BC, Greeks questioned the idea of anthropomorphic gods. Xenophanes wrote that if horses could paint or sculpt, they would make gods that looked like horses.

Early Greek “mythographers” tended to cast a skeptical eye on the traditional stories of the gods and heroes. Herodorus, for instance, who lived in the late 5th/early 4th century BC, rationalized the myths as allegories and analogies. Palaephatus, who probably lived in the 4th century BC, wrote an entire book that rationalized the popular myths. His convoluted explanations are sometimes more bizarre than the actual myths. [example: Palaephatus’ version of the Perseus story portrays Perseus as a pirate, with a ship called “Gorgon” that tries to plunder a village, but the people leave stones to fool him and run away. This is why people claim that Perseus used gorgon to turn people to stone.]

In addition, most ancient Greek philosophers seem to have disbelieved the traditional tales of the gods, since these gods acted so human (and therefore were incapable of being the paragons of virtue that gods should be). While they believed in god(s), they tended to downplay the traditional stories found in Homer and other myths.

So, one could argue that the Greeks have never believed their own myths – at least, not all the Greeks believed them. Nevertheless, there were other levels of religion besides the big festivals to the Olympian gods, and IMO these garnered more habitual devotion from ordinary people. Plus, there were mystery cults (e.g. Mithras, Sol Invictus, Eleusinian Mysteries, Orphics) that clearly had a more personal appeal than the larger rituals.

Finally, the idea of religious "belief" like we have today would be pretty foreign to an ancient Greek or Roman. Religion was a state and private affair, and polytheists could afford to respect whatever gods they felt like that day. Plus, there was an overwhelming notion (esp. in Rome) that if all the ceremonies were carried out properly, the gods wouldn't necessarily "bless" you - they would just leave you alone. That's all one could ask for.

Sorry about the long answer, but it’s really quite a complicated question.

Thanks. It makes me wonder when/if current religions will become mythology. Some of the things you wrote about are prevalent today. Many of us doubt whether scripture stories are literal. Many debates have taken place on Cougarguard about whether the BOM and it's peoples ever existed. With the internet creating virtually unlimited free speech, people of all nations and beliefs are free to express beliefs and doubts without fear of reprisal. It seems reasonable to expect many more people to question their beliefs and come to the conclusion that they may be false. I'm not sure if that would lead to a non-belief in God or just a change in religion. Probably both. It seems religion in general will need to adapt to the shifts in belief or die the pagan death.

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

All I can say is that had Greek mythology never existed, we never would have had the cinematic quasi-masterpiece Clash of the Titans.

My best friend growing up and I took his younger brother (who was in junior high at the time) to see it at the Villa Theater. Their mother objected because a neighbor had said the film contained "objectional material" (aka partial nudity) until my friend's younger brother told his Mom that he was supposed to see it for English class as they were studying Greek mythology.

He bragged to his friends for weeks that he got to see boobs on the screen.

Was the material "objectional" because it was only partial nudity? Also, was it at the Villa Theater in Springville? I remember seeing Beastmaster there and seeing Tanya Roberts topless. It was an unexpected treat. I saw it four more times after that before my mom caught on.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

Was the material "objectional" because it was only partial nudity? Also, was it at the Villa Theater in Springville? I remember seeing Beastmaster there and seeing Tanya Roberts topless. It was an unexpected treat. I saw it four more times after that before my mom caught on.

Yes, it was the bare hooters that this woman had found objectional. One of those really uptight types, she was as was her husband.

No, it was the Villa Theater in SLC on 13th East and about 3000 South - one of the old time theaters with balcony seating. It's a shame that was razed several years ago.

I remember well Tanya's part in The Beastmaster. I was disappointed that she didn't have the same wardrobe in Charlie's Angels.