Obama's brave new world of taxes.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

No offense intended, but if you are going to act as condescending as this, you should probably try to make sure that your numbers aren't complete crap.

Oh, none taken. But you might want to make sure my numbers really are complete crap before you call them complete crap.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Good point. So my state taxes will really be in the 3-4% range, and tithing will really only set me back about 7%. So I get to live on 15% of my income.
Goodie.

The focus of this really isn't the total--although it is somewhat alarming. What concerns me is the tax increase. You know very well that one of his major proposals is raising or eliminating the SS tax cap. From his website:

"Obama believes that the first place to look for ways to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Currently, the Social Security payroll tax applies to only the first $102,000 a worker makes. Obama supports increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security and he will work with Congress and the American people to choose a payroll tax reform package that will keep Social Security solvent for at least the next half century."

(His latest proposal is the "donut": Leave the cap at 102K, but then reinstitute the 12.5% tax at all income above 250K. Why the hole in the middle? Well, obviously he needs those votes.)

At this point, his tax plan then amounts to a 6% increase in the income tax rate, plus a 12.5% increase in SS taxes. That's an 18.5% increase in taxes. At any other time, this kind of increase would be laughable; the fact that this is seriously being talked about is scary. I'm OK with tax increases--we have problems with funding SS, the debt, the war, expanded health care, etc. that will require us all to tighten our belts a little. I'm not OK with a 20% tax increase on some, while cutting taxes and increasing benefits for others.

It's funny you mention the conservative talking points. I first heard the discussion on the "donut" plan on NPR--definitely the last bastion of conservative talk radio. I've never been able to stand listening to Rush, Hannity, et al but this kind of tax proposal might swing me right over.

I just don't understand why more people are not outraged by this.

Early on, I remember the SS tax going away at 54,000, but every year the f...ing bastard keep raising it and raising it. Damn them to hell.

And those of us cursed to pay such an outrageously high tax will not reap the benefits of the increased f..ing taxes. We'll be means tested so that we don't receive SS.

So because we're middle class, we'll get taxed for something we won't receive any benefit from. Not that I think Social Security is such a great benefit, and in reality because it's so poorly managed and useless, we should keep the tax down in the manageable range.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

ooh. Them's fightin' words.

Sadly, I have to fly (and I do mean fly), so I can't fight this battle right now. But in the words of the mighty governator, "I'll be back."

Sorry about the pied piper comment. I think the analogy's somewhat apt, but apparently I'm being condescending (which wasn't my intent). What scares me about Obama is that he seems to have hoodwinked a large number of us into thinking he represents something new and unifying to America, when in reality it's not really new or unifying--it just seems dangerous.

What ever happened to the middle? McCain's abandoning it. Obama's never caught wind of anything remotely resembling it.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I just don't understand why more people are not outraged by this.

Early on, I remember the SS tax going away at 54,000, but every year the f...ing bastard keep raising it and raising it. Damn them to hell.

And those of us cursed to pay such an outrageously high tax will not reap the benefits of the increased f..ing taxes. We'll be means tested so that we don't receive SS.

So because we're middle class, we'll get taxed for something we won't receive any benefit from. Not that I think Social Security is such a great benefit, and in reality because it's so poorly managed and useless, we should keep the tax down in the manageable range.

Social Security was never meant to be an income redistribution tool. It was meant as a sort of forced savings, a retirement insurance. This "donut" plan, along with the inevitable means-testing, turns it into welfare. And yes, Cali, when you pay something to the government that you're never getting back, it's a "tax".

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Sorry about the pied piper comment. I think the analogy's somewhat apt, but apparently I'm being condescending (which wasn't my intent). What scares me about Obama is that he seems to have hoodwinked a large number of us into thinking he represents something new and unifying to America, when in reality it's not really new or unifying--it just seems dangerous.

To me, the center is much more attractive. Hillary vs. McCain (at least the pre-campaign version)--tough choice. Obama vs. McCain--not so much.

We're going to get f..ed in the ass and we won't like it.