Tournament wins Pac-10 v. MWC

[jay santos]

Since the early 80's, BYU has fielded a lot of teams (almost annually) that were in the 30 to 60 range. That generally means you're expected to be one and done. Not a complete explanation for their tourney woes but it's not like they've gone in with 1 seeds and lost.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

More K-Dog logic. This figure is meaningless absent considering how many NCAA games a school has played. Playing more games enriches your tradition, even though it enhances opportunity for losses. UNLV is no. 5 and Utah is no. 52. But Utah has 35 wins and UNLV 32. What does that tell you about which team has been more of a mainstay in the tournement, including into the later rounds.

BTW, I'm not sure a gangsta tradition shouldn't have a huge asrterisk. But I've defended Tark before.

My logic isn't faulty, I'm just pointing out various measuring sticks people use. Many use win percentage. Others use total wins. Some use longevity. UNLV has been to the tournament 15 times and has a 32-14 record. Utah has been 26 times and has a 35-29 record. It is tough to say that Utah has a better tournament reputation than UNLV. I don't think many people would agree with that assessment.

[K-dog]

More statistical comparison in case SU thinks I'm being biased. Should your tournament rep be measured by how many times you've been in the tournament or how many times in this generation?

UNLV appearances
'75-'77
'80
'83-'91
'98
'00
'07

Utah
'44-'45
'50
'55-'56
'59-'61
'66
'77-'81
'83
'86
'90-'91
'93
'95-'00
'02
'05
'07

During the period both have made the tournament ('75-present), Utah has been to the tournament two more years than UNLV. Truthfully, I consider the national reputations of these two programs to be comparable and both superior to BYU.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Originally Posted by K-dog

I'm a little surprised by this. The MWC actually stacks up better than I thought they might.

Pac-10
UCLA 75 wins
AZ 41 wins
Stanford 19 wins
Cal 18 wins
UW 14
UO 12
ASU 12
OSU 12
USC 11
WSU 4
Total 218 avg. 22

MWC
Utah 35 wins
UNLV 32
BYU 11
WYO 9
UNM 6
TCU 5
CSU 3
AFA 0
SDSU 0
Total 101 avg. 11

Interesting statistics. Given these numbers you would expect the Pac to be twice the league but they regularly get more than twice the teams into the tournament.

The whole comparison is comical. The P10 is vastly better basketball conference. And not to burst MPs bubble but UNLV is the Tourney standard in the conf.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest

The whole comparison is comical. The P10 is vastly better basketball conference. And not to burst MPs bubble but UNLV is the Tourney standard in the conf.

Like I said, the comparison seems to indicate they are twice as good. I thought it would be a larger gap than that.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by K-dog

Like I said, the comparison seems to indicate they are twice as good. I thought it would be a larger gap than that.

Gotta love those 12 Oregon wins in the tournament. Pretty pitiful. The only time at least in my memory they won the Pac 10 (tournament) the Utes beat them in the first round. The only time in my memory they won Pac 10 football the Utes beat them in the regular season. I remember the Utes beating them the last time the two teams played in football. The Utes seem to own Oregon, but of course, my memory isn't infallible.

[MikeWaters]

I had always thought of NM as a significant basketball school when I was younger. I don't know where I came up with that.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Gotta love those 12 Oregon wins in the tournament. Pretty pitiful. The only time at least in my memory they won the Pac 10 (tournament) the Utes beat them in the first round. The only time in my memory they won Pac 10 football the Utes beat them in the regular season. I remember the Utes beating them the last time the two teams played in football. The Utes seem to own Oregon, but of course, my memory isn't infallible.

IIRC some of their wins were very early, like first year of the tournament kind of early.

[UteStar]

The only reason that UNLV would be considered the standard bearer in the conference for hoops over Utah is because of UNLV's wild reputation. The UNLV teams of the late 80s and early 90s were wild and thoroughly entertaining to watch and they were truly rebels and badboys. People don't forget that and that is why UNLV has stayed on the national radar even during a decade stint of little action.

Utah on the other hand is appreciated and respected for what they have done...but the publicity is much less than UNLV because UNLV were the badboys and that demanded attention.

With all that said, the Mountain West for hoops will never be mistaken for being better than the PAC-10 even in the years that the MoWest may have better teams. Any conference with UCLA and Arizona along with a bunch of other recognizable teams will always be respected more, even in their down years, than the MoWest. Utah and UNLV are the only schools with name recognition for hoops. New Mexico, BYU and Air Force bring some things to the table...but the Pac-10 still reigns in the West.