Jesus "quoting the Septuagint" - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 09-07-2007, 04:08 AM

I see the statement here every once in a while that "Jesus quoted the Septuigant." Did Jesus give his sermons in Greek?

The New Testament was originally written in Greek. As I understand, the same Greek that Alexander spoke. This physical evidence of Christianity consituting literally a fusion of the two original strands of Western Civilization--Hellenism and Hebreism--has always seemed sublime to me. Clearly, the authors of the Gospels were Hellenized Jews, fluent in Greek, possibly speaking Greek as a first language. Like Paul. The Gospels' authors are practically speaking anonymous to us, and they wrote the Gospels at least thirty some odd years after Jesus' death. None of Jesus' sayings were videotaped or audiotaped. It seems to me that as they composed the Gospels they took the Old Testament translation with which they were familiar, the Greek Septuagint, and copied Jesus' allusions to and quotations of Old Testmanent passages straight out of the Septuagint and into the Gospels that they were creating, even though Jesus didn't give his sermons in Greek. Much like what JS did with the King James Version as he authored the Book of Mormon. It seems to me that to say that "Jesus quoted the Septuagint" is like saying "Jesus quoted the King James Version" because in a King James Version of the Gospels he is seen quoting King James Version passages of the Old Testament.

For those who disagree with the foregoing, what is the theory for how it was that in actual practice Jesus quoted old Testament passages in Greek to people mostly whose native toungue was Aramaic and/or Latin, even as Jesus probably spoke Aramaic?

ute4ever · 09-07-2007, 04:59 AM

There is no explanation for it. Christianity was invented by a bunch of lonely, self-righteous goons who wanted to get back at the Roman Empire. Now go forth and sin with a clear conscience.

SeattleUte · 09-07-2007, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

There is no explanation for it. Christianity was invented by a bunch of lonely, self-righteous goons who wanted to get back at the Roman Empire. Now go forth and sin with a clear conscience.

This common sense point need not be an assault on anyone's faith.

All-American · 09-07-2007, 05:46 AM

You're right-- we just get lazy. The closest thing we ever get to the original words of Jesus is the Greek (except for a few Aramaic quotations, of course), and so out of habit and a lack of a better alternative, we treat the Greek of the New Testament as being the original, for all intents and purposes. Usually, I don't have a problem with this-- in a sense, it gets a free pass under the "we're doing the best we can" exemption. But it does get us in sticky spots if we take it for granted. Good catch.

Archaea · 09-07-2007, 02:16 PM

I would agree with many of the observations, but also add the point which might not be self-evident to Seattle. The Septuagint, insofar as it translated the Hebrew Bible as far the Prophets, the Writings and the Torah, is considered to have recorded the most authentic Hebrew Bible. So in a sense, many consider the Septuagint is considered the most authentic translation of the First Testament.

09-07-2007, 04:08 AM	#1
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Jesus "quoting the Septuagint" I see the statement here every once in a while that "Jesus quoted the Septuigant." Did Jesus give his sermons in Greek? The New Testament was originally written in Greek. As I understand, the same Greek that Alexander spoke. This physical evidence of Christianity consituting literally a fusion of the two original strands of Western Civilization--Hellenism and Hebreism--has always seemed sublime to me. Clearly, the authors of the Gospels were Hellenized Jews, fluent in Greek, possibly speaking Greek as a first language. Like Paul. The Gospels' authors are practically speaking anonymous to us, and they wrote the Gospels at least thirty some odd years after Jesus' death. None of Jesus' sayings were videotaped or audiotaped. It seems to me that as they composed the Gospels they took the Old Testament translation with which they were familiar, the Greek Septuagint, and copied Jesus' allusions to and quotations of Old Testmanent passages straight out of the Septuagint and into the Gospels that they were creating, even though Jesus didn't give his sermons in Greek. Much like what JS did with the King James Version as he authored the Book of Mormon. It seems to me that to say that "Jesus quoted the Septuagint" is like saying "Jesus quoted the King James Version" because in a King James Version of the Gospels he is seen quoting King James Version passages of the Old Testament. For those who disagree with the foregoing, what is the theory for how it was that in actual practice Jesus quoted old Testament passages in Greek to people mostly whose native toungue was Aramaic and/or Latin, even as Jesus probably spoke Aramaic? __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 09-07-2007 at 05:04 AM.

09-07-2007, 05:46 AM	#4
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	You're right-- we just get lazy. The closest thing we ever get to the original words of Jesus is the Greek (except for a few Aramaic quotations, of course), and so out of habit and a lack of a better alternative, we treat the Greek of the New Testament as being the original, for all intents and purposes. Usually, I don't have a problem with this-- in a sense, it gets a free pass under the "we're doing the best we can" exemption. But it does get us in sticky spots if we take it for granted. Good catch. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

09-07-2007, 02:16 PM	#5
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	I would agree with many of the observations, but also add the point which might not be self-evident to Seattle. The Septuagint, insofar as it translated the Hebrew Bible as far the Prophets, the Writings and the Torah, is considered to have recorded the most authentic Hebrew Bible. So in a sense, many consider the Septuagint is considered the most authentic translation of the First Testament. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

09-07-2007, 04:59 AM	#2
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	There is no explanation for it. Christianity was invented by a bunch of lonely, self-righteous goons who wanted to get back at the Roman Empire. Now go forth and sin with a clear conscience.