Comparing the homosexual view with the former negro view

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

This is laughable IMHO. Are you saying Heavenly Mother carries spirit children in her womb for nine months? That must be personal revelation because it ain't in the stick of Judah or Joseph or in Joseph Smith's writing.

And if you concede that procreation won't work there exactly like it does here, it is rank speculation to say that there is something unique and necessary about a vagina in spirit creation.

IOW, maybe homosexuality isn't fundamentally opposed to eternal increase.

I'm not claiming to know, but unless you are willing to lay down the personal revelation card, neither do you.

And yes, I know the proclamation on the family, which isn't part of the cannon, says gender is eternal. But that doesn't mean spirit reproduction must be the same.

You are making a wild guess.

More wild extrapolation way beyond anything I explicitly or implicitly said.

I said nothing about sex/gestation being the way that God creates/reproduces in the hereafter. What I am saying is that God has outlined the way we begin to partake of the creative process in THIS life and that is

1. Celestial marriage covenants
2. Sex with only our eternal companion

If we can't adhere to this simple outline in this life, why would God entrust to us the ability to participate in the eternal creative process (in whatever form that takes on) in the hereafter?

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Here is a definitive web site:

http://www.affirmation.org/memorial/...ng_smith.shtml



I think the timeline is interesting.

Interesting info. Thanks.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Doubtless?

Is this not the time for man to prepare to meet God?

If you can't get married here, what guarantee's are givent that these Saints will be taken care of in the life after?

Find me some scriptures that show that non-covenant making Saints in this life will be allowed that concession in the after.

I don't have the quotes at my fingertips (at work), but I don't think the idea that opportunities denied men in this life being available in the next is a foreign one.

Originally Posted by Adam

This is laughable IMHO. Are you saying Heavenly Mother carries spirit children in her womb for nine months? That must be personal revelation because it ain't in the stick of Judah or Joseph or in Joseph Smith's writing.

And if you concede that procreation won't work there exactly like it does here, it is rank speculation to say that there is something unique and necessary about a vagina in spirit creation.

IOW, maybe homosexuality isn't fundamentally opposed to eternal increase.

I'm not claiming to know, but unless you are willing to lay down the personal revelation card, neither do you.

And yes, I know the proclamation on the family, which isn't part of the cannon, says gender is eternal. But that doesn't mean spirit reproduction must be the same.

You are making a wild guess.

Amusing how easily you dismiss the Proclamation. No, it's not in the canon, so I guess the signatures of 15 apostles--prophets, seers, and revelators--mean nothing.

And "wild" guess? Ha. I'd say there's nothing wild about it at all. In fact, given the Lord's law on chastity, I'd say it's a pretty good guess.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

I have a 50-year-old booklet titled The Church and The Negro that was designed to let African-American church members know what their rights were in the church and why, along with that God still loves them and all that warm fuzzy stuff.

The concept seems quite similar to today's teaching on homosexuality. And that got me wondering, could homosexuals receive equal rights in the church over the next decade or two?

I've heard people use the scriptures on the offensive against homosexuality, where it is called an abomination and such. But wasn't that under the pre-Christian Mosaic law? And likewise, aren't there scriptures about the black skin being a curse, and the saints were admonished not to mix their seed so their children would not be cursed and damned? Pre-1978 anyway.

Moreover, doesn't the temple endowment (paraphrasing) refer to chastity as having no sexual relations outside of marriage - - but does not specify gender - - the emphasis focusing on being lawfully married?

Similarly, polygamy is a sin... except for when the Lord allows it.
Murder is a sin... except for when the Lord allows it.
Black skin is a curse... until the Lord decides otherwise.
Might homosexuality be permitted amongst the saints someday?

The truth is, God could reveal absolutely anything. But I doubt this one.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

Contrary to dismissing the proclamation, I quote it as saying that gender is eternal and point out that this statement does not equate to the eternal sameness of celestial procreation.

I'm preempting a wrong reading of the proclamation, not dismissing it.

"Eternal sameness"? Is that a technical term?

Originally Posted by Adam

And no, it isn't part of the cannon. If you think everything signed by the First Presidency is cannon, you have to twist yourself into knots trying to untangle the inconsistencies.

The word is "canon" and if you hadn't noticed, I agreed with you.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

In Acts 15 the NT Church set aside all kinds of OT stuff that was supposed to last "forever," "until the end of days" and so on. I've got a list of some of the most notable ones:

Gen 17:7-14 Circumcision is an "everlasting covenant… between me and you and thy seed after thee."

Ex 12:14, 24 Passover to be kept "throughout your generations… forever."

Ex 12:17 Feast of unleavened bread "observe… in your generations… forever."

Ex 27:20-21 "…a statute forever" for Aaron’s descendants to keep a lamp burning from evening to morning in the tabernacle.

Ex 29:9 Aaron’s descendants by "perpetual statute" are to hold the priest’s office, "to serve me as priests forever".

Ex 29:38 Two lambs to be sacrificed "day by day continually," "every day for all time to come."

Ex 30:8 "perpetual incense" to be burned "without interruption for all time to come."

Ex 31:12-17 Sabbath to be kept "throughout your generations," "for all time to come" as a perpetual covenant," "permanent sign." Those who work on the sabbath are to be put to death.

Ex 30:10 Atonement on the altar once a year "throughout your generations," "every year for all time to come."

Ex 40:15 Anointing of Aaron’s descendants to be an "everlasting priesthood throughout their generations." "This anointing will make them priests for all time to come."

Lev 6:18-22 Offerings by the descendants of Aaron a "statute forever," "for all time to come."

Lev 7:36-37 "…a statute for ever throughout their generations" "that the people must obey for all time to come" regarding the law of various offerings.

Lev 10:15 Parts of offerings which belong to the descendants of Aaron "by a statute forever."

Lev 16:29-34 Day of Atonement to be observed "a statute for ever" "for all time to come."

Lev 17:7 Not to offer sacrifices to devils is a "statute for ever unto them throughout their generations."

Lev 21:16-21 No descendants of Aaron "in their generations," "for all time to come" with a physical defect are to make an offering.

Lev 22:3 Descendants of Aaron "among your generations," "for all time to come" if unclean they go near the sacred offerings, they are to be cut off. (Num 19:20,21)

Lev 23:5-14 Feast of the passover and unleavened bread "to be observed by all your descendants for all time to come."

Lev 23:15-22 Harvest festival regulations are to be "a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations" "for all time to come no matter where you live."

Lev 23:26-32 Regulations for the day of atonement are to be observed as "a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings." He who works or does not fast is to be cut off from God’s people.

Lev 23:33-44 Regulations for the feat of tabernacles are to be "a statute for ever in your generations," "to be dept by your descendants for all time to come."

Lev 24:3 Lamps are to be kept burning in the tabernacle "a statute forever in your generations." "This regulation is to be observed for all time to come."

Lev 24:8-9 Children of Israel are to bring bread "every sabbath…continually… an everlasting covenant… a perpetual statute," " for all time to come" to be placed on the table before the Lord.

Num 10:8-10 Rules for blowing horns "an ordinance for ever throughout your generations," a rule "to be observed for all time to come."

Num 15:1-31 Rules pertaining to sacrifice "forever in your generations" (v. 15), "for all time to come." Those who deliberately disobey are to be put to death (v.30).

Nu 15:37-41 Children of Israel are to make fringes on the borders of their garments "throughout all their generations" "for all time to come."

Nu 18:8-24 Rules of inheritance for priests established "by statute for ever" (v.11, 19, 23), "…a permanent rule that applies also to your descendants."

Deu 29:29 Children of Israel are to obey the revealed Law "for ever."

Paul did say some things against homosexuality.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

In Acts 15 the NT Church set aside all kinds of OT stuff that was supposed to last "forever," "until the end of days" and so on. I've got a list of some of the most notable ones:

I was under the impression that "for ever" as translated into English does not always have the "for limitless time" definition that we attach to it today. For example, see 1 Chronicles 28:4.