11-01-2008, 01:08 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,589
|
Quick question on Prop 8
I haven't been on the board in a few days so I don't know if this has already been discussed, and I'm leaving out the door for a race, so I don't have time to find out.
I've gotten two emails in the last few days with a video of this guy talking about what happened in Massachusetts after their Supreme Court decision. They showed a few of the books that have been read in their kindergarten class, one of which shows a couple of men/male figures kissing. Doesn't this seem a little aggressive? I don't mind having the conversation with my child explaining things he may come across in life and discussing how we all have different values and that people may choose differently than ours. But I'm not really dying to have it rammed down his throat. So my question is for you lawyers...I'm telling my wife that this is more a function of the local school board deciding they want to include this in the curriculum than it is a function of the SC decision, i.e. this book would have been included regardless of any decision made by the SC. She disagrees. So to you attorneys or educators: How does the SC decision affect school curriculum? |
11-01-2008, 02:11 PM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,326
|
Quote:
At least that is according to a school administrator I know. That's why many believe there are HUGE unintended consequences by passing these 'non-discriminatory' laws/propositions.
__________________
Ohbama - The Original Bridge to Nowhere |
|
11-01-2008, 04:34 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 9,483
|
Truthfully, it has no bearing, which is why the Yes camp cannot really outline a specific hypothetical path to destruction.
Currently, a teacher is not prohibited from telling kids that some people have two mommies or two daddies. After the Prop 8 vote, nothing will change. Let's assume that Prop 8 passes by a 100% margin...not a single No vote. The next day at school, a teacher can still tell kids that some people have 2 mommies or 2 daddies. Gays can still adopt. Nothing changes. Prop 8 only goes to the definition of marriage. It does not give school boards any more or any less power to form curricula. The Mass. example is one of a teacher using poor judgment, not an example of systematic indoctrination on the part of the state school system. For those with elementary aged kids, how much marriage is taught to kids, anyway? I don't remember any lessons on marriage when I was in elementary school. What exactly do these current heterosexual lessons entail? Do they encourage kids to get married?
__________________
Fitter. Happier. More Productive. "Everyone is against me. Everyone is fawning for 3D's attention and defending him." -- SeattleUte |
11-01-2008, 04:40 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the far corner of my mind
Posts: 8,711
|
No school is required to teach anything. In CA, if you teach sex ed (and abotu 95% of schools do, including elementary schools), you must teach respect for marriage. If same sex unions are marriagethey must be included in that instruction. Exactly how they teach will be up to the local school board and schools.
Parents will also not have the rifght to require notification before same sex marriage is taught, although they will have the right to opt out of such instruction, at least in CA, as they can opt out of almost anythignin california. Both sides of the debaet in california have misstated the likely effect of this issue on educaiton, IMO.
__________________
Sorry for th e tpyos. |
11-01-2008, 04:42 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the far corner of my mind
Posts: 8,711
|
Quote:
You are incorrect. If you want, I can dig out the education code sections. If you teach sex ed, you mUST teach reaspect for marriage and both sides agree this will include all types of marriages. and, even if they tell the kids that someone has two daddies, they cannot say they are married if they cannot marry legally.
__________________
Sorry for th e tpyos. |
|
11-01-2008, 05:02 PM | #6 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 9,483
|
Quote:
Quote:
I guess there is one thing that would be finalized with Prop 8. Teachers can talk about gays in civil unions. Teachers can tell kids that gays can adopt, be good parents. Teachers can still tell kids that some kids have 2 mommies and 2 daddies. The only thing a teacher cannot do is say that gays are "married," because technically, they would not be "married" per Prop 8. If the hysteria over gay marriage is the poor example and confusing message it allegedly sends to kids, then the issue isnt really the definition of the word. It is the very basic notion of gays living together and raising kids. Prop 8 won't change that in the slightest. But I agree....teachers would not be able to say that gays are "married."
__________________
Fitter. Happier. More Productive. "Everyone is against me. Everyone is fawning for 3D's attention and defending him." -- SeattleUte |
||
11-01-2008, 05:45 PM | #7 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the far corner of my mind
Posts: 8,711
|
Quote:
This is exactly why I said both sides have overstated the issue with respect to schools. While the differnce in what can be taught to children will be subtle at best, it is different and it will change. OTOH, for the state superintendent to appear on TV and claim that it has absolutley nothing to do with teaching or children is just as disingenuous and ignores the reality of the law. This has never been about school instruciton, in my mind. I do not personally adopt these argumetns nor rely on them for my approach. This is about the definition of marriage, nothing less and nothign more. THis is why I think governemtn should simply get out of the marriage business and make all meanignful distinction between couples and individuals based on some form of civil unions while marriage becomes a religious issue. Indeed, I think this is where the issue must end up, eventually. Even so, as an issue of obedience and faith I choose to support Prop 8 and will vote for it, and I do this with no ill will to gays or lesbians or anyone. In fact, I do this regreting, at some level, the impact it will have on some of my frineds and family, as I know it will be hurtful to them no matter what I say or how I expalin my position. If by some measure history judges my support to be wrong or bigoted, then so be it. I must act based on my conscience and my belief and I am doing so.
__________________
Sorry for th e tpyos. |
|
11-01-2008, 06:33 PM | #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 9,483
|
Quote:
__________________
Fitter. Happier. More Productive. "Everyone is against me. Everyone is fawning for 3D's attention and defending him." -- SeattleUte |
|
11-01-2008, 09:17 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,589
|
Thanks for the responses. Two quick further questions:
1) Would there be some basis in challenging the inclusion of gay relationships as "committed relationships" as they have no legal basis to be called that (heterosexual couples could fall under "common law" marriage)? Sincere question--not making an argument here. 2) Hasn't the California SC already overturned this proposition? What's the difference between CA and MA with respect to definition of marriage? It seems like any sort of scenario painted by Prop 8 proponents would already be happening in CA. |
Bookmarks |
|
|