Can one be honest in general but - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 02-26-2008, 09:22 PM

intellectually dishonest or inconsistent and still rate as honest?

Taq Man · 02-26-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

intellectually dishonest or inconsistent and still rate as honest?

Counselor, could you repeat the question.

Archaea · 02-26-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taq Man

Counselor, could you repeat the question.

There is much heated discussion that "I must be true to myself", and "he's intellectually dishonest."

I see intellectual honesty as usually bestowed upon two sets of arguments. The first being, internally consistency in logical arguments, and the second being, "when you disagree with me, you're dishonest."

However, if we assume, that most people by virtue of the fact are dishonest, at least intellectually, some of the time, due to the fact that we do not live in a vacuum, and all of our problems are not subject to an internally consistent intellectual system, but rather are beset by emotional needs overriding our intellect.

Assuming the foregoing to be true, are intellectually dishonest people inherently dishonest or evil?

Seattle finds apologists, whom he would regard as intellectually dishonest and hence dishonest reprobate liars.

Do most others believe as he does?

Taq Man · 02-26-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

There is much heated discussion that "I must be true to myself", and "he's intellectually dishonest."

I see intellectual honesty as usually bestowed upon two sets of arguments. The first being, internally consistency in logical arguments, and the second being, "when you disagree with me, you're dishonest."

However, if we assume, that most people by virtue of the fact are dishonest, at least intellectually, some of the time, due to the fact that we do not live in a vacuum, and all of our problems are not subject to an internally consistent intellectual system, but rather are beset by emotional needs overriding our intellect.

Assuming the foregoing to be true, are intellectually dishonest people inherently dishonest or evil?

Seattle finds apologists, whom he would regard as intellectually dishonest and hence dishonest reprobate liars.

Do most others believe as he does?

I think flawed human beings would be closer to the truth as they probably see themselves as honest advocates. Kind of like George Costanza said "its not a lie if you believe it".

However, if they know they are deceiving people, purposfully leaving out data, proof, etc. then yes they are liers of the worst sort and dishonest, dishonorable men. Their lies are intended to deceive, hide, or cover up issues of deeply held importance to most folks.

I know for a fact that Hugh Nibley great and smart as he was fell into this trap in regards to the PofGP papyri.

FMCoug · 02-26-2008, 10:24 PM

I voted no, but I think that there are many more people who are intellectually clueless (by choice, and there is nothing wrong with that) then truly intellectually dishonest.

SoCalCoug · 02-26-2008, 10:40 PM

I said yes. Intellectual dishonesty is more of a violation to yourself, than a part of being "honest" to your fellow men, which is the way most of us interpret "honesty".

creekster · 02-26-2008, 11:03 PM

As noted it depends on whether you are talking about internal inconsistency due to seeking to deceive (meaning you are not honest by any measure) or inconsistency by error of reasoning or data (not dishonest, just mistaken) or something else altogether.

Let me reprhase: I can be but you can't be.

il Padrino Ute · 02-26-2008, 11:13 PM

Is intellectual honesty/dishonesty subjective?

creekster · 02-26-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Is intellectual honesty/dishonesty subjective?

yes.

il Padrino Ute · 02-26-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

yes.

That's my opinion as well.

That's why I don't worry if anyone accuses me of intellectual dishonesty.

View Poll Results: Can a person be intellectually honest or inconsistent and still be considered honest?
Yes	2	22.22%
No	5	55.56%
Sometimes	2	22.22%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

02-26-2008, 09:22 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Can one be honest in general but intellectually dishonest or inconsistent and still rate as honest? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

02-26-2008, 10:24 PM	#5
FMCoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kaysville, UT Posts: 3,151	I voted no, but I think that there are many more people who are intellectually clueless (by choice, and there is nothing wrong with that) then truly intellectually dishonest. __________________ Still fat ...

02-26-2008, 10:40 PM	#6
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	I said yes. Intellectual dishonesty is more of a violation to yourself, than a part of being "honest" to your fellow men, which is the way most of us interpret "honesty". __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug

02-26-2008, 11:03 PM	#7
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	As noted it depends on whether you are talking about internal inconsistency due to seeking to deceive (meaning you are not honest by any measure) or inconsistency by error of reasoning or data (not dishonest, just mistaken) or something else altogether. Let me reprhase: I can be but you can't be. __________________ Sorry for th e tpyos.

02-26-2008, 11:13 PM	#8
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	Is intellectual honesty/dishonesty subjective? __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.