Proposition 8 take a break..we can reach our destination..but we're still a ways away

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I admire courage more than stealthy maneuver.

Good, you be courageous.

I've seen what happens to courageous people. They get killed, their principles disillusioned and nothing is left for their families thereafter.

Stealthy individuals survive systems designed to dehumanize and to destroy. They leave something behind, besides some noble legacy that doesn't feed or clothe them, for their progeny.

Courage can be found in working within the system instead of seeking to bring it down.

The nail that sticks up WILL BE hammered down. Unless you also hold the hammer.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

This is a very basic code section, but I am convinced that most have never read it.

In relevant part:

To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

With regards to lobbying specifically:

In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.

Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.

An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.

Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.
****
Obviously, that the Church spends a "significant" portion of its time lobbying is not likely. The educational exemption goes out the window when we are told by religious leaders to teach the congregation on Sunday.

Overall, will it hamr their status? Extremely unlikely. But it certainly flirts with the line and is definitely NOT the behavior of a politically neutral organization.

Members in my ward have been asked to donate, as well as go door to door soliciting support for prop 8. However, I don't see any of that creating issues with the church's tax exemption, because all of that is being done through some coalition group. Even the donation forms come from the coalition. The bishop in my ward has repeatedly emphasized to all of us that this is all being spearheaded my members of other faiths, and that many of the door to door people are from other churches in the community. The church isn't organizing any of that.

As a side note I whole-heartedly support prop 8. Were I a parent in California I would be doing everything I could to get this passed so that my little kids don't get taught gay sex ed, and aren't taught all through school that there's nothing wrong with being gay, and it's okay to try it out for a while and "explore" your sexual orientation. In that rape training class they were always talking about the LGBTQ community. That's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Questioning. as far as I can tell there is quite a bit of recruiting going on for the "questioning" group, and I for one, wouldn't want my kid recruited. Gay marriage is just the tip of the iceberg.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

Members in my ward have been asked to donate, as well as go door to door soliciting support for prop 8. However, I don't see any of that creating issues with the church's tax exemption, because all of that is being done through some coalition group. Even the donation forms come from the coalition. The bishop in my ward has repeatedly emphasized to all of us that this is all being spearheaded my members of other faiths, and that many of the door to door people are from other churches in the community. The church isn't organizing any of that.

As a side note I whole-heartedly support prop 8. Were I a parent in California I would be doing everything I could to get this passed so that my little kids don't get taught gay sex ed, and aren't taught all through school that there's nothing wrong with being gay, and it's okay to try it out for a while and "explore" your sexual orientation. In that rape training class they were always talking about the LGBTQ community. That's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Questioning. as far as I can tell there is quite a bit of recruiting going on for the "questioning" group, and I for one, wouldn't want my kid recruited. Gay marriage is just the tip of the iceberg.

1. You are not a parent.
2. You have no way of knowing that "gay sex ed" will be taught in school, nor that it will condone "trying out" homosexuality or "exploring" sexual orientation. I dont remember my health teacher encouraging us as 9th graders to go out and have heterosexual sex.
3. Again, not to go into great detail about Sec 501, but even a cursory reading of the relevant section will reveal why these activities are suspect with regards to tax exemption. I have stated fully that i do not believe the Church is violating the non-lobby restriction, but only because lobbying does not constitute a significant portion of its activities....rest assured that what the Church is doing is definitely lobbying, though.

Also, this is not being spearheaded by a coalition group. The coalition group is the vehicle by which all the Churches can skirt the non-lobbying issue. If the Church were not coordinating this, we would not be receiving letters from the First Presidency, we would not be receiving phone calls from our Stake Presidency asking to donate X amount of money, and we would not be receiving phone calls from the ward coordinator telling us whether our assignment will be to walk or talk. We would only be receiving communications from the coalition.
4. I fully support and respect your right to endorse Prop 8.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

1. You are not a parent.
2. You have no way of knowing that "gay sex ed" will be taught in school, nor that it will condone "trying out" homosexuality or "exploring" sexual orientation. I dont remember my health teacher encouraging us as 9th graders to go out and have heterosexual sex.
3. Again, not to go into great detail about Sec 501, but even a cursory reading of the relevant section will reveal why these activities are suspect with regards to tax exemption. I have stated fully that i do not believe the Church is violating the non-lobby restriction, but only because lobbying does not constitute a significant portion of its activities....rest assured that what the Church is doing is definitely lobbying, though.

Also, this is not being spearheaded by a coalition group. The coalition group is the vehicle by which all the Churches can skirt the non-lobbying issue. If the Church were not coordinating this, we would not be receiving letters from the First Presidency, we would not be receiving phone calls from our Stake Presidency asking to donate X amount of money, and we would not be receiving phone calls from the ward coordinator telling us whether our assignment will be to walk or talk. We would only be receiving communications from the coalition.
4. I fully support and respect your right to endorse Prop 8.

1. I have never claimed to be a parent, but thank you for informing me that I am not. It really cleared up a lot of confusion.

2. You have no way of knowing that it won't be taught. Why wouldn't it? Your health teacher may not have encouraged you in 9th grade to go out and have heterosexual health, but I can only speak from my experience, which was that heterosexual sex was portrayed as normal and healthy. I've sat in classes and been told straight out by a lesbian that many of the women in the room probably have wondered whether or not they are gay, and that those are feelings that are okay, and should be explored. I just don't believe that won't happen in a larger scale if we condone homosexuality. Feel free to disagree.

3. All I can say is that your stake is handling things much differently than mine. The bishop gets up every week at the beginning of Sunday School or Relief Society and says that he has been asked to let us know that there are opportunities to support an effort to pass prop 8 by donating funds to a coalition group, or joining an effort sponsored by the coalition to go door to door seeking support, there are sign up sheets going around for those who are interested in participating. That's it. I don't know if your stake is just a lot pushier than mine, or if you're exaggerating.

[MikeWaters]

I wonder if SPs who really do an amazing job getting $s and volunteers will be that much more likely to be called as Seventies.

I hope this is way too cynical, and is not true.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I wonder if SPs who really do an amazing job getting $s and volunteers will be that much more likely to be called as Seventies.

I hope this is way too cynical, and is not true.

It is too cynical, Mike. GAs come from Utah and sometimes Idaho, not California.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

1. I have never claimed to be a parent, but thank you for informing me that I am not. It really cleared up a lot of confusion.

2. You have no way of knowing that it won't be taught. Why wouldn't it? Your health teacher may not have encouraged you in 9th grade to go out and have heterosexual health, but I can only speak from my experience, which was that heterosexual sex was portrayed as normal and healthy. I've sat in classes and been told straight out by a lesbian that many of the women in the room probably have wondered whether or not they are gay, and that those are feelings that are okay, and should be explored. I just don't believe that won't happen in a larger scale if we condone homosexuality. Feel free to disagree.

3. All I can say is that your stake is handling things much differently than mine. The bishop gets up every week at the beginning of Sunday School or Relief Society and says that he has been asked to let us know that there are opportunities to support an effort to pass prop 8 by donating funds to a coalition group, or joining an effort sponsored by the coalition to go door to door seeking support, there are sign up sheets going around for those who are interested in participating. That's it. I don't know if your stake is just a lot pushier than mine, or if you're exaggerating.

The letters are from the First Presidency, BDB. Take some time and find these things out. I would not be surprised that your ward receives less info...simply because the odds of getting significant financial contribution from a bunch of recently graduated singles in HB is much less than in established family wards. The official letter was to be read several Sundays past. It is available online. I think this is not a much an issue of my exaggerating as perhaps you simply not being aware.

Heterosexual sex is normal and healthy. lol. How do you view it? Abnormal? unhealthy? I think you mean heterosexual sex outside of marriage...yet, schools also teach abstinence as a sure-fire contraceptive method. I think you are being overly paranoid about schools encouraging kids to explore homosexuality...but such an approach seems to be lockstep with what I have been seeing in the wards.....pure conjecture regarding what "will" happen as a result of gay marriage...the end of democracy, our freedom will be in jeopardy....heterosexuals will stop getting married, etc...all scaremongering.

here is a good litmus test. Mass has legalized gay marriage. Are the public schools in Mass churning out flaming homosexuals in record numbers? Are high schools filled with budding gay teens, indulging their every whim? I have no data on that....so it would be interesting to see as a litmus test.

My point about you not being a parent...you dont have kids, so dont presuppose to know what you would do in this situation once you have them.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The letters are from the First Presidency, BDB. Take some time and find these things out. I would not be surprised that your ward receives less info...simply because the odds of getting significant financial contribution from a bunch of recently graduated singles in HB is much less than in established family wards. The official letter was to be read several Sundays past. It is available online. I think this is not a much an issue of my exaggerating as perhaps you simply not being aware.

Heterosexual sex is normal and healthy. lol. How do you view it? Abnormal? unhealthy? I think you mean heterosexual sex outside of marriage...yet, schools also teach abstinence as a sure-fire contraceptive method. I think you are being overly paranoid about schools encouraging kids to explore homosexuality...but such an approach seems to be lockstep with what I have been seeing in the wards.....pure conjecture regarding what "will" happen as a result of gay marriage...the end of democracy, our freedom will be in jeopardy....heterosexuals will stop getting married, etc...all scaremongering.

here is a good litmus test. Mass has legalized gay marriage. Are the public schools in Mass churning out flaming homosexuals in record numbers? Are high schools filled with budding gay teens, indulging their every whim? I have no data on that....so it would be interesting to see as a litmus test.

My point about you not being a parent...you dont have kids, so dont presuppose to know what you would do in this situation once you have them.

You can't give me any reason why it won't happen, so why should I be convinced that it won't?

I don't have to be a parent to know that I don't want gay children.

I know there are a lot of gays in Boston, I don't know if they migrating there, or if they're growing up there. Since you don't know the answer to that either, I'm entirely uncertain as to why you bring it up.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

You can't give me any reason why it won't happen, so why should I be convinced that it won't?

I don't have to be a parent to know that I don't want gay children.

I know there are a lot of gays in Boston, I don't know if they migrating there, or if they're growing up there. Since you don't know the answer to that either, I'm entirely uncertain as to why you bring it up.

I believe gay marriage is allowed in Mass, which is why he would have brought it up.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The letters are from the First Presidency, BDB. Take some time and find these things out. I would not be surprised that your ward receives less info...simply because the odds of getting significant financial contribution from a bunch of recently graduated singles in HB is much less than in established family wards. The official letter was to be read several Sundays past. It is available online. I think this is not a much an issue of my exaggerating as perhaps you simply not being aware.

Heterosexual sex is normal and healthy. lol. How do you view it? Abnormal? unhealthy? I think you mean heterosexual sex outside of marriage...yet, schools also teach abstinence as a sure-fire contraceptive method. I think you are being overly paranoid about schools encouraging kids to explore homosexuality...but such an approach seems to be lockstep with what I have been seeing in the wards.....pure conjecture regarding what "will" happen as a result of gay marriage...the end of democracy, our freedom will be in jeopardy....heterosexuals will stop getting married, etc...all scaremongering.

here is a good litmus test. Mass has legalized gay marriage. Are the public schools in Mass churning out flaming homosexuals in record numbers? Are high schools filled with budding gay teens, indulging their every whim? I have no data on that....so it would be interesting to see as a litmus test.

My point about you not being a parent...you dont have kids, so dont presuppose to know what you would do in this situation once you have them.

Oh, and as far as disposable income in the singles ward. They had no problem lobbying HARD for money for the Newport Temple in the singles ward. Even asking for a specific dollar amount from certain individuals, and according to the stake president, most of us paid what was asked.

You're right. I missed the letter from the first Presidency. I wasn't in church that Sunday.