National Health Care

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I'm with Mike. I call BS on that 96% stat. Let's see some substantiation.

And not cooked substantiation by a person who works in hospital admin with a vested interest in parsing what data he needs to suit specific circumstances and inquiries

You should note Red Deaths job is to make hospitals profitable ... which is a bit of a conflict of interest.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

That's exactly right. We're not talking about the lowest rung here. They qualify for Medicaid. It's easy to forget that. We're talking about working class Americans whose employers do not provide health care but who do not qualify for government programs.

Among the uninsured:
70% work full time or have a spouse that works full time.
64% have incomes that exceed the federal poverty line (20k for a family of 4)
35% have incomes that exceed double the federal poverty line.

Data from the Kaiser Commission 2006 report on the uninsured.

To get back to JL's question: What happens when the uninsured are diagnosed with cancer? Well, data show that the mortality rate for an uninsured woman with breast cancer is twice as high as for her insured counterpart.

Don't confuse Red Death with stats and info he did not parse -he'll get cheesed and call you a commie

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

True of false: nationalized healthcare would lead to a burst of entrepreneurial activity as more people are willing to let go of jobs that had previously guaranteed health insurance?

false

[Indy Coug]

What % of US uninsureds voluntarily self-insure because they either don't want to pay for the premiums or deem themselves to be sufficiently good risks that they don't feel the premiums are worth the coverage; even though they could afford to pay for insurance?

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by tooblue

And not cooked substantiation by a person who works in hospital admin with a vested interest in parsing what data he needs to suit specific circumstances and inquiries

You should note Red Deaths job is to make hospitals profitable ... which is a bit of a conflict of interest.

conflict of interest? I'm not vying for public office I'm just stating how I feel its best to run the healthcare in the united states. As for the cooked observation tonight let me see If I can find the study.

[Indy Coug]

Let's look at this from a self-insured angle:

IIRC, the current maximum annual HSA contribution is $5,900. If I had put in $5,900 per year over the last 10 years, I would have only used up about 50% of that in actual medical expenditures, including 3 pregnancies.

How many people look at that and decide it's better to plug their money into HSAs and self-insure instead of much higher premiums than $500/month for a level of health insurance coverage they deem excessive?

P.S. My current employer pays 100% of my insurance premiums and contributes $2,900 per year to an HSA account

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What % of US uninsureds voluntarily self-insure because they either don't want to pay for the premiums or deem themselves to be sufficiently good risks that they don't feel the premiums are worth the coverage; even though they could afford to pay for insurance?

Only 7% of uninsured say they could afford insurance, but don't have insurance because they don't need it. The others respond that either they can't afford to purchase for themselves, or they can't afford their share of employer-sponsored programs. (Kaiser Family Foundation Health Insurance Survey, 2004)

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

As for the cooked observation tonight let me see If I can find the study.

MRD, did you see my post earlier? I checked the numbers and the data that could match up is the Medicare payout. For Medicare enrollees, depending on the study, 85-95% of the enrollee's total lifetime payout is in the final year of life.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

That's exactly right. We're not talking about the lowest rung here. They qualify for Medicaid. It's easy to forget that. We're talking about working class Americans whose employers do not provide health care but who do not qualify for government programs.

Among the uninsured:
70% work full time or have a spouse that works full time.
64% have incomes that exceed the federal poverty line (20k for a family of 4)
35% have incomes that exceed double the federal poverty line.

Data from the Kaiser Commission 2006 report on the uninsured.

To get back to JL's question: What happens when the uninsured are diagnosed with cancer? Well, data show that the mortality rate for an uninsured woman with breast cancer is twice as high as for her insured counterpart.

You make a good point and definitely being uninsured as you note is a factor in the mortality rate. It however, is not the only factor. Tooblue can go off about how crappy the US system is but the fact still remains. For most of the people its the best healthcare system in the world. Are there ways where we can improve? Definitely, I just don't think the government ie increased taxation is the way to do that.

[Indy Coug]

A big improvement in the current US healthcare system would be to give individual and small groups the ability to pool their risk as larger groups and avail themselves the lower rates that come from the Law of Large Numbers.

Insurance companies charge higher rates to individuals and small groups because their claims experience is proportionately much more volatile and so a large portion of the insurance premium is to cover that added claims risk.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

conflict of interest? I'm not vying for public office I'm just stating how I feel its best to run the healthcare in the united states. As for the cooked observation tonight let me see If I can find the study.

You work in hospital admin ... expecting you to be objective is like inviting a CIA director into our discussions on Water boarding and expecting him/her to be objective.