Prop 8 stuff heating up - Page 7 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

ERCougar · 07-29-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegoose

Here is a link to the actual letter that was sent out to all the wards and stakes:

http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsr...e-sex-marriage

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Yes it does. Thanks.

I know that the Church claims political neutrality, but apparently this extends only to candidates and/or parties, not to specific issues. I have to figure out how I feel about that. Is the point of political neutrality (as they have defined themselves) solely for tax purposes?

Archaea · 07-29-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Yes it does. Thanks.

I know that the Church claims political neutrality, but apparently this extends only to candidates and/or parties, not to specific issues. I have to figure out how I feel about that. Is the point of political neutrality (as they have defined themselves) solely for tax purposes?

Probably a large proportion of the reason but not exclusive.

It also makes good sense in this regard, the salvation of man is more important that political success, so as long as salvation is conveyed, in what political format, is probably less important.

RockyBalboa · 07-29-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Probably. I'm imperfect. I admit it.

But it does get tiresome having Tex and Indy constantly trying to run me out of the church because I don't agree with everything the church does and say so. They think the church is too good for my love and my service and my membership. They honestly would rather I be a bitter apostate and say the things I say then a faithful active serving card-carrying member. They tend to be self-righteous and pricks. But is isn't charitable to say so.

I apologize.

No one wishes you were to become a bitter apostate because you already are one.

Dumbass.

Cali Coug · 07-29-2008, 12:53 AM

The church's agressive tactics in California stand in sharp contrast to those undertaken earlier under President Hinckley. Specifically, let's recall the press release issued by the church for Peter Danzig following his discipline by church leaders.

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/...-for-the-flock

Note in particular the following paragraph:

"In his Tribune letter-to-the-editor, Mr. Danzig said he “was troubled that my church requested I violate my own conscience to write in support of an amendment I feel is contrary to the constitution and to the gospel of Christ." In reality Church leaders had asked members to write to their senators with their personal views regarding the federal amendment opposing same gender marriage, and did not request support or opposition to the amendment. "

I found their argument disingenuous at the time with respect to Danzig. Their action in California appears to confirm my suspicions that the initial letter wasn't designed to be construed as a passive request to take any position and let one's views known to political leaders.

Tex · 07-29-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I found their argument disingenuous at the time with respect to Danzig. Their action in California appears to confirm my suspicions that the initial letter wasn't designed to be construed as a passive request to take any position and let one's views known to political leaders.

Don't drag up Danzig again. Even Adam conceded that his situation didn't arise merely about a private letter to a congressman.

RockyBalboa · 07-29-2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Exhibit A.

Exhibit BCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ and Infinity.

Oh and Fuck you too.

It'll be fun exposing the real Adam to the bubble down there, if you decide to run for public office in Utah County again.

Cali Coug · 07-29-2008, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Don't drag up Danzig again. Even Adam conceded that his situation didn't arise merely about a private letter to a congressman.

This isn't a point about the facts which led to his discipline. It is a point from the church's press release that they did not believe they were directing him or anyone else to take a particular position on gay marriage when they counseled people to write to their legislator. The church's most recent efforts in California undercut that argument.

UtahDan · 07-29-2008, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Exhibit BCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ and Infinity.

Oh and Fuck you too.

It'll be fun exposing the real Adam to the bubble down there, if you decide to run for public office in Utah County again.

Why would anything a person said on an internet message board get so personal for you? A little perspective might be needed.

SeattleUte · 07-29-2008, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Don't let this degenerate into a bash of SeattleUte. He takes joy in the pain of others? Not probably, but he poorly stateed his feelings. He takes joy the travils of what he considers an evil organization. That is a reasonable position.

The death of apartheid was not all kicks and giggles for the whites in South Africa, but the travils of that system brought me joy even as I recognized the pain it caused some individuals.

SeattleUte most likely sees this situation the same way?

This pretty much sums up part of how I feel. I don't want people to suffer. I welcome clarity, and this is a clarifying event. I see this as like a fever breaking. I don't understand those, such as Cali, who say this is not the real church that they believe in. I think that's a naive view. I think the LDS Church shows its true colors at times like this. If you really think about it the LDS Church on every level is about preserving a past when men governed other men and men lived their lives according to a Biblical ethos, and blind faith in magic and the supernatural.

And I'm not really talking about the Gospels, where Christ said the whores are no worse than the virgins, and he used his special powers to ensure everyone got enough wine to get a good buzz if not totally shit faced at the wedding party. No, I'm not talking about Christ, who told the church elders to shove it and got himself killed for it. On the contrary, I'm talking about something one hundred and eighty degrees of that.

MikeWaters · 07-29-2008, 03:45 AM

you know what would take the wind out of the sails--is if the money was lavishly spent by protectmarriage.org. They better be careful that they do not screw up.

Descendants of pioneers don't want to find out about catered dinner parties.

07-29-2008, 12:53 AM	#64
Cali Coug Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,996	The church's agressive tactics in California stand in sharp contrast to those undertaken earlier under President Hinckley. Specifically, let's recall the press release issued by the church for Peter Danzig following his discipline by church leaders. http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/...-for-the-flock Note in particular the following paragraph: "In his Tribune letter-to-the-editor, Mr. Danzig said he “was troubled that my church requested I violate my own conscience to write in support of an amendment I feel is contrary to the constitution and to the gospel of Christ." In reality Church leaders had asked members to write to their senators with their personal views regarding the federal amendment opposing same gender marriage, and did not request support or opposition to the amendment. " I found their argument disingenuous at the time with respect to Danzig. Their action in California appears to confirm my suspicions that the initial letter wasn't designed to be construed as a passive request to take any position and let one's views known to political leaders.

07-29-2008, 03:45 AM	#70
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,367	you know what would take the wind out of the sails--is if the money was lavishly spent by protectmarriage.org. They better be careful that they do not screw up. Descendants of pioneers don't want to find out about catered dinner parties.