12-15-2008, 06:33 PM | #51 | |
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With respect to the two individuals I referenced in my previous post, I believe the second individual would have responded similarly and would have returned to full fellowship had her privileges only been suspended. But, I believe forgiving herself, would have taken longer. In her mind the excommunication was what she needed to make things right. Whether her previous bishop or SP took that into consideration I do not know. On the other hand, the first individual, I do not believe would have changed behavior without a disciplinary council being held and having been excommunicated. Without sharing any of the details, that is the impression I got when counseling with him. |
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12-15-2008, 07:06 PM | #52 | |
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12-15-2008, 07:27 PM | #53 | |
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The church does not forget, in order to protect itself. It's hard as humans to do what the church, administratively, chooses not to do. |
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12-15-2008, 09:03 PM | #54 |
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Not "chooses not to do." Rather, "is incapable of doing."
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12-15-2008, 09:10 PM | #55 |
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12-15-2008, 09:12 PM | #56 |
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I agree with this. There's no other possible reason in light of the Church's failure to follow the principle of forgiveness and absolute dissolution: "remember no more."
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12-15-2008, 10:48 PM | #57 | |
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If the bishop believes that a disciplinary council is a possibility, he is supposed to turn it over to the SP. The stake president will talk with you individually, consider all the relevant information, and will likely make one of three decisions. 1) To hold a stake disciplinary council. The stake disciplinary council may choose excommunication, to disfellowship, to put you on formal probation, or to exonerate you. In practice, the first two are more common. 2) To send you back to the bishop, with instructions that the bishop hold a ward-level disciplinary council. The bishop's disciplinary council cannot excommunicate you; being disfellowshipped or put on formal probation is the most likely outcome here. It can happen that the bishop's council returns with a recommendation to the SP that a stake disciplinary council be convened (IOW, they think you should be excommunicated), but in truth, this is likely very rare unless you withhold information from the SP that comes out in the bishop's DC. 3) To send you back to the bishop without instructions re: a disciplinary council. In this case, the bishop will likely give you an informal probation, and will "work with you" individually without a disciplinary council. If, as he works with you, he feels a disciplinary council might be needed/helpful, he will discuss this with the SP and proceed under his direction - i.e., back up to square 1. Otherwise, you will work with him until he feels you have made appropriate progress and Given what you've divulged, I would guess that the SP is likely to refer it back to the bishop, but a disciplinary council is fairly likely. But like others have said, there is considerable variability in these things. Best wishes to you. If you'd like more information or even just some support, feel free to boardmail me. I'm pretty familiar with how these things work. I've been involved in quite a few over the years, and I've been very impressed with how the church leaders handle them. They generally take it very seriously, earnestly seek the spirit's guidance, and seem to err on the side of mercy. |
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12-15-2008, 11:04 PM | #58 | |
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12-15-2008, 11:07 PM | #59 |
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My point is, it has nothing to do with forgiveness.
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
12-17-2008, 02:55 AM | #60 |
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I don't know if this post is real or hypothetical, but it makes me very sad. The reaction that Guest received was pretty far down among the ranking of helpful, edifying ones. Why would anyone turn to a clergy for help if he were running the risk of being "turned over" to the authorities. Good gracious.
This is why I made a rule of never telling anyone when I screwed up (literally or figuratively). |
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