When will Mormons learn?

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Tex

What--now for the next 4-8 years there's no discussion allowed about how nonsensically loyal blacks are to the Democrats, no matter how they abuse them?

Funny that one of Obama and the Democrat Congress's first acts was to revoke DC school vouchers, which helped place lots of black kids in better schools. I think they finally got enough negative press that they cancelled the change before it was final.

Liberalism is one of the chief culprits of the destruction of the black family, and yet they just keep coming back for more.

The difference is the base of the Republican party consists largely of the same people who like to tell lies about your religion and make you look like a member of an evil satanic cult. I think it's probably more strange to associate with people who don't try to cover the fact they hate your religion as opposed to those who tell you they're trying to help you even if their methods don't work.

[MikeWaters]

I'm not sure vouchers are the answer to anything.

Esp. as long as schools can selectively deny entrance to students based on aptitude and other factors.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm not sure vouchers are the answer to anything.

Esp. as long as schools can selectively deny entrance to students based on aptitude and other factors.

Those schools who want to remain exclusive will just raise prices to the point where existing students will get a little bit of a deal but the price will still be too high for anyone who can't afford to go there now. So they'll be stuck in the public schools, few will actually change schools. The main difference will be government money subsidizing private education. Vouchers seem like a good idea on the surface to a free market proponent, but they aren't really because it's really just an expansion of government money into private or religious education, and with that will come mandates and other stuff tied into the funds. Conservatives are supposed to be against that stuff.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Those schools who want to remain exclusive will just raise prices now that they'd be getting a government subsidy to keep the riff raff out. Vouchers seem like a good idea on the surface to a free market proponent, but they aren't really because it's really just an expansion of government money into private or religious education, and with that will come mandates and other stuff tied into the funds which conservatives are supposed to be against.

Obviously what I am getting at is what happens to the "underclass" and the special needs kids?

By underclass I mean the children from historically poor and broken families with poor parental support.

Just as you see "white flight" with the current system, you will see the same happen in a universal voucher system as well--with many private schools opting out, or raising prices to put it out of reach.

The only private school in the area with the capability to help my son turned him down sight unseen.

Multiply that by thousands and thousands--millions actually.

There is no "magic solution" to our education problem. We need to do the hard work of getting parents more involved, of getting better teachers (and getting rid of bad teachers), holding people accountable.

The lady in DC who has proposed to the teachers union that teachers make 6-figure incomes IF they get rid of tenure/job security. Trying to attract a different kind of person to the teaching profession.

Pay me $150k to teach sophomore Honors English and coach JV basketball, and hell, maybe even I would think about it.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Those schools who want to remain exclusive will just raise prices to the point where existing students will get a little bit of a deal but the price will still be too high for anyone who can't afford to go there now. So they'll be stuck in the public schools, few will actually change schools. The main difference will be government money subsidizing private education. Vouchers seem like a good idea on the surface to a free market proponent, but they aren't really because it's really just an expansion of government money into private or religious education, and with that will come mandates and other stuff tied into the funds. Conservatives are supposed to be against that stuff.

I recognize the value of vouchers is hotly debated, but it's hard to deny that they've worked in DC.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Tex

I recognize the value of vouchers is hotly debated, but it's hard to deny that they've worked in DC.

I'm sure there are probably some positive results that can come. But I think traditional, small government conservatives should be concerned about the government giving money to private schools because of the influence and control that will always come tied to the money. Now they can insist on having some control over the curriculum or demand other things. Mike Huckabee-style religious right conservatives won't care so much because they like a mix of church and state.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I recognize the value of vouchers is hotly debated, but it's hard to deny that they've worked in DC.

I've not followed this in the news. Do you have information supporting this?

Evaluating such a thing is non-trivial, because vouchers are a self-selected population.

[BYUTexan]

Originally Posted by Tex

What--now for the next 4-8 years there's no discussion allowed about how nonsensically loyal blacks are to the Democrats, no matter how they abuse them?

Funny that one of Obama and the Democrat Congress's first acts was to revoke DC school vouchers, which helped place lots of black kids in better schools. I think they finally got enough negative press that they cancelled the change before it was final.

Liberalism is one of the chief culprits of the destruction of the black family, and yet they just keep coming back for more.

I think much of that has to do with the fact that they encounter much more racism among conservatives and that the democrats tend to favor the little guy more.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by BYUTexan

I think much of that has to do with the fact that they encounter much more racism among conservatives and that the democrats tend to favor the little guy more.

Conservatives are no more racist than liberals. Liberals just hide their racism.

And if they favor the little guy so much, why do liberals try to limit individual freedom?

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Conservatives are no more racist than liberals. Liberals just hide their racism.

I agree with you to some extent. Malcolm X said, the conservative is the wolf and the liberal is the fox. With the wolf, at least you know he's out to get you. With the fox, you never know when he'll backstab you.

When I was an intern in DC back in 2004, I talked to this black man at institute who used to lobby for civil rights in 70s. He said it was easier to work with conservatives. They'll tell you "no way" initially, but later they open up, and out of Southern honor they deliver.

With liberal politicians on the other hand, they make you all these promises, and after they can't deliver, they make up some excuse like, "I tried to work it into the language, but couldn't..."