12-15-2008, 02:55 PM | #41 | |
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He probably has no calling and participates very little, other than voluminous visits with his Bishop. Whether he is "officially" cut off seems besides the point. |
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12-15-2008, 03:03 PM | #42 |
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You don't get it. Have you ever met anyone who has been ex'ed? I have met many, and your attitude would be anathema to them, akin to their feelings for their Stake President when they appeared before him in sack cloth and ashes, but was shown the door, b/c, as you and Tex say, he needed it for his repentance, and in any event, it's not a big deal, just a simple clerical matter that will remain "confidential." LOL! Excommunications onfidential in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sains! LOL! You've obviously never heard the "Relief Society" jokes.
Get a grip on reality, man.
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12-15-2008, 03:04 PM | #43 | |
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12-15-2008, 03:07 PM | #44 |
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"Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12 |
12-15-2008, 03:22 PM | #45 |
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I'm suggesting you could think of him as already excommunicated, without the official stamp.
I grant you, the stamp holds meaning, but let's not pretend that a person in this kind of situation isn't already in some kind of state of separation. |
12-15-2008, 03:26 PM | #46 |
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A penitent person seeks to close the separation; excommunication memorializes it.
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"Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12 |
12-15-2008, 04:28 PM | #47 | |
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12-15-2008, 04:36 PM | #48 | |
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What if those two had not been ex'ed but rather simply had privileges removed followed by weeekly meetings with a leader? How would that have changed things?
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12-15-2008, 05:59 PM | #49 |
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Here is where I struggle with excommunication
It is not with the process of excommunication but rather with what I am taught to do regarding people that offend me and sometimes get exed. Let me give you a real life example. There is a member of my wife's family that for the last 30 years has committed some very grevious sexual sins and during that same time served as Branch President, Bishop, Counselor in Stake Presidency, and Bishop again. My family is also currently in the same ward as this individual. This information came out in the last six months and he was excommunicated as expected. No problems there.
Since we learned this information we have been trying to deal with it and cope with the fact that we never really knew this individual. To put it simply, this had been devastating to my wife and basically destroyed her family. In counseling with the same church leaders that excommunicated this person we have been told that we haveto forgive him and love him and that he needs our support at this time. To me that seems so inconsistent, you must forgive him now but he is going to need time to be forgiven by the church and the Lord. In my minds eye, I picture a Lord that freely forgives the truly repentant. Since I am not perfect, it takes me a lot longer to work through my emotions, anger, selfishness, etc., regarding the offense than it should the Lord. Yet I am suppose to forgive long before the Lord or His church does? That is my issue with the process and what I am currently struggling with now. Sorry for hijacking the thread. . . |
12-15-2008, 06:05 PM | #50 | |
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And I believe "organizational forgiveness" to be unrelated to divine forgiveness. Perhaps only the sinner needs to feel worthy and the forgiveness exists at the moment of sin.
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