Refs awful

[TheSizzle36]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The Jazz are a crappy road team. They have been all season. They have not won in the Staples Center this season. Last night was no different. It isnt the refs.

And with this comment you have completely lost all credibility. The Jazz beat the Clippers at Staples by 16 in January.

Sheesh.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

And with this comment you have completely lost all credibility. The Jazz beat the Clippers at Staples by 16 in January.

Sheesh.

LOL. fair point. I forgot about the Los Angeles Clippers.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

USA vs Soviet Union olympic basketball.

Phantom call on Lambier Lakers v Pistons Finals.

Umps giving Jeter the homer against the Orioles when Danny Meier clearly reached into the stands and interfered.

No, they are not always right. You are all over the map. You want to start moving the discussion towards the infalliblity of refs, a point which nobody here asserts.

The Jazz are a crappy road team. They have been all season. They have not won in the Staples Center this season. Last night was no different. It isnt the refs.

Well I had no idea if you thought they were infallible or not. Now it is clear that in your opinion every few decades or so one game in some sport may be affected by refs. Since it is possible, why don't you now look at the calls that were being criticized from yesterday's game (and they are specifically decsribed by others in this thread) and tell us if you think they were wrong or right. If they were wrong, it only takes one or two to afffect the outcome.

My point isn't that the refs were horrible throughout or even that they decided this particualr game. As you may have noticed, my first post said that I thought they did OK but for the call on kirilenko when 'the machine' dribbled off his knee. My point is that even though you admit that sometimes refs DO affect the outcome, you keep pretending to be above the frya, repetitively mock those who say the refs did affect the outcome of this game, all while refusing to even discuss the specific compalints on calls from last night's game.

I don't think the Jazz should have won last night. But it was a close game. There were some very questionable calls (kirilenko, Odom's dunk and one, Gasol's shove) that very well might have decided the outcome. So rather than keep 'mocking' the discussion, why don't you respond or just leave it alone?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by creekster

Well I had no idea if you thought they were infallible or not. Now it is clear that in your opinion every few decades or so one game in some sport may be affected by refs. Since it is possible, why don't you now look at the calls that were being criticized from yesterday's game (and they are specifically decsribed by others in this thread) and tell us if you think they were wrong or right. If they were wrong, it only takes one or two to afffect the outcome.

My point isn't that the refs were horrible throughout or even that they decided this particualr game. As you may have noticed, my first post said that I thought they did OK but for the call on kirilenko when 'the machine' dribbled off his knee. My point is that even though you admit that sometimes refs DO affect the outcome, you keep pretending to be above the frya, repetitively mock those who say the refs did affect the outcome of this game, all while refusing to even discuss the specific compalints on calls from last night's game.

I don't think the Jazz should have won last night. But it was a close game. There were some very questionable calls (kirilenko, Odom's dunk and one, Gasol's shove) that very well might have decided the outcome. So rather than keep 'mocking' the discussion, why don't you respond or just leave it alone?

creek, I already responded last night. i think it was probably a bad call, but your description shows that you are likely not following closely. You reference The Machine dribbling off his knee, which is irrelevant to the call. The call was for AK reaching, not who touched it last. If you watch the replay, Ak getting called for a reach is not a huge stretch. Shasha sold it by flopping to the ground.

Even after that call, jazz could have gone ahead, so no I disagree with you. that call did not change the outcome of the game.

Given that bad calls against the Jazz could affect the outcome. but there were also calls against the lakers that I did not agree with. Those could have also affected the outcome. This is why whining about refs is so pointless and circular....there is always a way to claim that both teams got jobbed.

if you dont even think the Jazz should have won last night, then why are you complaining that the Ak call may have changed the game?

[Coach McGuirk]

This is a ridiculous conversation. The Jazz had ample opportunities to take the lead last night and did not convert once. That is why they did not win.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Coach McGuirk

This is a ridiculous conversation. The Jazz had ample opportunities to take the lead last night and did not convert once. That is why they did not win.

As a player, this is probably the only useful way to look at the game. But as a fan, the conversation's far from ridiculous (well, no more ridiculous than discussing a basketball game that none of us were involved in). By the same logic, you could say the Lakers blew opportunities to beat the Jazz by 15. To say that the referees don't affect a bball game just because one team doesn't convert every opportunity, doesn't grab every available rebound, doesn't make every shot, etc. is ridiculous.

[Coach McGuirk]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

As a player, this is probably the only useful way to look at the game. But as a fan, the conversation's far from ridiculous (well, no more ridiculous than discussing a basketball game that none of us were involved in). By the same logic, you could say the Lakers blew opportunities to beat the Jazz by 15. To say that the referees don't affect a bball game just because one team doesn't convert every opportunity, doesn't grab every available rebound, doesn't make every shot, etc. is ridiculous.

Just as you are not going to convert every opportunity, grab every available rebound, doesn't make every shot, etc, you are not going to get every call.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

creek, I already responded last night. i think it was probably a bad call, but your description shows that you are likely not following closely. You reference The Machine dribbling off his knee, which is irrelevant to the call. The call was for AK reaching, not who touched it last. If you watch the replay, Ak getting called for a reach is not a huge stretch. Shasha sold it by flopping to the ground.

Even after that call, jazz could have gone ahead, so no I disagree with you. that call did not change the outcome of the game.

Given that bad calls against the Jazz could affect the outcome. but there were also calls against the lakers that I did not agree with. Those could have also affected the outcome. This is why whining about refs is so pointless and circular....there is always a way to claim that both teams got jobbed.

if you dont even think the Jazz should have won last night, then why are you complaining that the Ak call may have changed the game?

Let's see who isn't following closely, shall we? Find one place where I said the call on kirilenko affected the outcome. You will look in vain, as I did nto say that. My last post referred to several of the calls, and even then only conditionally allowed that taken together they might have affected the outcome.

The dribble off the knee is releveant, IMO, becasue little Sasha's flailing is what the ref on the other side of the ocurt called; he was not in position to see the reach (and I don't think it was a reach). I did not think it, alone, affected the outcome. To be perfectly honest, I am feeling grouchy and my biggest gripe here is about your petulant whining, I mean mocking, which grows stale and tedious, IMO.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by creekster

Let's see who isn't following closely, shall we? Find one place where I said the call on kirilenko affected the outcome. You will look in vain, as I did nto say that. My last post referred to several of the calls, and even then only conditionally allowed that taken together they might have affected the outcome.

The dribble off the knee is releveant, IMO, becasue little Sasha's flailing is what the ref on the other side of the ocurt called; he was not in position to see the reach (and I don't think it was a reach). I did not think it, alone, affected the outcome. To be perfectly honest, I am feeling grouchy and my biggest gripe here is about your petulant whining, I mean mocking, which grows stale and tedious, IMO.

I've changed my mind. I'm not mocking. I'm describing.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I've changed my mind. I'm not mocking. I'm describing.

We already knew it. At least you can admit it now. This is the first step toward recovery.