08-13-2007, 09:26 PM | #31 |
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The ONE solid piece of evidence that links BY to the massacre was his message to the rider to leave them alone. Anybody who will argue that he was directly involved has to come up with an argument that more than compensates for that message.
I think Arch hit it on the head.
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08-14-2007, 12:31 AM | #32 | |
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08-14-2007, 12:52 AM | #33 |
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Come now. Kaffee stroked Jessop's pride and Jessop ejaculated out a confession. As well as a fantastic speech.
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08-14-2007, 01:28 AM | #34 | |
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There is substantial evidence that suggests BY didn't know about the MMM and didn't order it. In fact, I would argue that the evidence leans in his favor. The evidence, I think, does suggest that BY contributed to the MMM through inflamatory language and helping create a climate where something like the MMM could happen. That is a far cry from saying he ordered the MMM or even wanted it to occur. In fact, the historical record shows that he cried when he found out about the MMM. |
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08-14-2007, 01:33 AM | #35 | |
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You simply need to put the event into a historical context. The handcart company that was slaughtered came from Arkansas where a prominent Mormon had just been murdered. They were boasting that they had played a part in the murder. They also boasted during their journey from SLC to MM that they had poisoned the wells of the Mormons. They named their oxen Joseph Smith and then roundly whipped them. The Mormons were already a paranoid bunch, after having been run out of several states by mobs and had the US army sent to destroy them. Can you imagine a more paranoid environment? Then you have BY saying very inflamatory things, talking about blood atonement, and you have an explosion waiting to happen. I think history shows that he had no idea they were going to be slaughtered. But I think it also suggests that he helped foster an environment where it could happen. To say that something like this simply couldn't happen in the early church without direct orders just isn't true. |
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08-14-2007, 01:45 AM | #36 | |
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08-14-2007, 01:58 AM | #37 | |
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08-14-2007, 02:11 AM | #38 | |
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That being said, even Lee doesn't claim to have personally received direction from Brigham Young regarding the MMM. He said he has always believed that Gen. George A. Smith was sent by Brigham Young. He had no direct knowledge regarding Brigham Young's communication w/ Smith. |
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08-14-2007, 03:13 AM | #39 | |
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If you're looking for a smoking gun of an order, direct or implied, of course any of that kind of evidence has been destroyed. 20 years went by before the trial of John D. Lee, and many records were not-so-mysteriously missing by then. Even personal journals of the time had pages missing, etc, as some of the later documenters were members who felt they would rather destroy the truth than present something that might caste the LDS Church in bad light (tendency mentioned by Juanita Brooks). So the movie producers and writers, like the thorough research of Will Bagley, concludes that Brigham Young was implicated, and the movie, apparently, reflects that opinion. Its a movie, not a documentary, so they can only take one position as to the chronology of events and present that. |
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08-14-2007, 03:16 AM | #40 | |
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