Returned Missionary Having Trouble Speaking English?

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by creekster

Of course, those sorts of tests can also be a bit dicey. When I was at the MTC our district practiced total immersion and we thought we were quite fluent. As we prepared to leave we were told we would be given an FSI conversational fluency test the next day. We were told that we might be able to get 2.5 or a 3.0 on the test, if we were lucky.

I asked the instructor how the test would be administered and he generally described the process, as he understood it. Learning the exam would essentially be a conversation, I decided to prepare for the test. I had my own French language instructional book and a French dictionary and so that night I plotted out the topics likely to be on such a test and planned some tactics I could use to steer the conversation in certain directions. I then prepared all the vocabulary words I would need to achieve these conversational goals.

At the conclusion of the test the examiner told me that I had unbelievable command of the language especially for someone with such a raw accent. I was given a 4.0 but was told I would have received a 4.5 if my accent was better. This is silly, of course, as I was nowhere near that fluent, but I had guessed about the exam with uncanny accuracy and so had completely fooled the examiner. The rest of my district was also amazed and annoyed, as I spoke no better than many of them (except for some of the French swear words I had picked up when I was younger, but that's another story)

A while back, freshly finished with college and looking for a better more upwardly mobile job I signed on with a headhunter. I was positioning myself for a career in design and art direction, my 'handler' was keen on my interpersonal skills and my command of the French language and simply interested in getting me hired.

I interviewed for a job that wasn't really what I was looking for but of course the handler was very excited about - being bi-lingual in Canada is important. Unwittingly I took an FSI test and scored extremely high. I was offered the job but turned it down.

On my mission I understood that I did not speak French particularly well, or with a particularly good French accent. However I paid careful attention and was sensitive to attitude and mannerisms. Despite (ALL) Americans penchant for loathing the French, I truly love the French people. I am certain that was the principle reason for my success –after all I am not blessed with book smarts.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by tooblue

On my mission I understood that I did not speak French particularly well, or with a particularly good French accent. However I paid careful attention and was sensitive to attitude and mannerisms. Despite (ALL) Americans penchant for loathing the French, I truly love the French people. I am certain that was the principle reason for my success –after all I am not blessed with book smarts.

This is not a completely accurate statement. For reasons of self-preservation I don't usually trumpet it around here, but I love the French and their culture as well.

[il Padrino Ute]

I don't hate all of the French. Just the ones from Paris.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Despite (ALL) Americans penchant for loathing the French, I truly love the French people.

Are you somehow implying that I hate the French?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by creekster

Of course, those sorts of tests can also be a bit dicey. When I was at the MTC our district practiced total immersion and we thought we were quite fluent. As we prepared to leave we were told we would be given an FSI conversational fluency test the next day. We were told that we might be able to get 2.5 or a 3.0 on the test, if we were lucky.

I asked the instructor how the test would be administered and he generally described the process, as he understood it. Learning the exam would essentially be a conversation, I decided to prepare for the test. I had my own French language instructional book and a French dictionary and so that night I plotted out the topics likely to be on such a test and planned some tactics I could use to steer the conversation in certain directions. I then prepared all the vocabulary words I would need to achieve these conversational goals.

At the conclusion of the test the examiner told me that I had unbelievable command of the language especially for someone with such a raw accent. I was given a 4.0 but was told I would have received a 4.5 if my accent was better. This is silly, of course, as I was nowhere near that fluent, but I had guessed about the exam with uncanny accuracy and so had completely fooled the examiner. The rest of my district was also amazed and annoyed, as I spoke no better than many of them (except for some of the French swear words I had picked up when I was younger, but that's another story)

I don't want to sound like a braggart, (well, not too much) but I was blessed with the ability to speak Italian like a native. I spent far too much time studying the language while there, but because of it, I was able to absorb the language. There were several Italian missionaries that told me that if I didn't introduce myself when speaking to them on the phone, they had no idea that I was not an Italian. I had a fake name tag made with an Italian name on it when I went to my last city and I had to show the members of the branch there my passport to prove that I was not an Italian.

When I got to Italy, I was able to understand almost everything that was said to me after one month. After the 2nd month, I was able to say everything I needed to say to be a missionary. I was then put with a native companion who spoke no English and my comprehension of the language skyrocketed. He taught me the correct grammar, the subtle changes in pronunciation of words ( as in shortened vowels after double consonants, fluctuation, etc.) and would challenge me to learn 20 verbs each day. He would quiz me on the previous day's verbs and and gave me a great book that was a picture dictionary in English/Italian of just about any noun you could think of. We were together for 10 weeks and it was great. I learned more from him in the first few weeks than I did the entire time in the MTC.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by All-American

Are you somehow implying that I hate the French?

If the shoe fits Perhaps I should paint with a slightly different broad brush and state Americans in general loath the French, not merely All-American of CougarGuard!

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

OK, this is one of those Missionaryisms I simply don't buy: the classic "I spoke <XYZ language> so much that I forgot how to speak English" line. I'm throwing the flag on this line although I hear plenty of RMs say it.

I think they say it just to get attention or show off. Sure, you pick up little expressions from the foreign tongue. You maybe say "si" or "nyet" the first day or two back but you don't forget how to speak English. Very lame.

Even worse are the guys that fake the accent. I worked with a guy that went to Australia. He would speak totally normal unless a girl was nearby. Then he'd pull out "mate" and "mum" and crap like that. He sounded like Crocodile Dundee. I'm actually shocked I never heard, "That's not a knife, this is a knife."

[Archaea]

I enjoy French and self-taught myself a choppy version of it.

I understand the prepping for tests, but as an MTC instructor, I was lucky to only achieve a 4.25 with a 5.0 requiring a lifetime of study.

However, I read the German dictionaries and memorized grammar books and much of the Germany dictionary.

In order to learn French I simply bought a French grammar book, 501 verbs and read a French dictionary, plus added Imagez votre Francais. Nonetheless my pronunciation is choppy and probably crappy.

No, the best testing for FSI is an eight hour test where you encounter multiple situations and tested against educated native speakers.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I enjoy French and self-taught myself a choppy version of it.

I understand the prepping for tests, but as an MTC instructor, I was lucky to only achieve a 4.25 with a 5.0 requiring a lifetime of study.

However, I read the German dictionaries and memorized grammar books and much of the Germany dictionary.

In order to learn French I simply bought a French grammar book, 501 verbs and read a French dictionary, plus added Imagez votre Francais. Nonetheless my pronunciation is choppy and probably crappy.

No, the best testing for FSI is an eight hour test where you encounter multiple situations and tested against educated native speakers.

I had always assumed that the test I received was less than the real deal, but the woman that agve it to me was a native speaker. I also misled you a bit becasue when in high school I lived in Belgium for a couple of years and picked up some french there, so I had an advantage. Of course, I once had a woman in belgium tell me my accent sounded like a dutch camel (whatever that means) so I couldn't have been too good.

How many languages do you speak, Arch?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

I had always assumed that the test I received was less than the real deal, but the woman that agve it to me was a native speaker. I also misled you a bit becasue when in high school I lived in Belgium for a couple of years and picked up some french there, so I had an advantage. Of course, I once had a woman in belgium tell me my accent sounded like a dutch camel (whatever that means) so I couldn't have been too good.

How many languages do you speak, Arch?

Well? none.

Poorly? Whatever I need. I have forgotten several, and have modest amount of ability in several European, several Asian, some Middle Eastern and once upon a time a few dead ones. But right nothing adequately. Again I have no abilities but the ability to work. My mind is like a perfect sieve. I have forgotten more than I know. Sad eh?

I envy you guys who can learn it, sounding great, great rhythm. I remember studying carefully German rhythm, called Satzbetonung. Not only must one learn the proper pronunciation of each word, but one must learn proper linking emphasis. Not liaison in the French sense of allision, as French, Italian, and I believe to some extent Portugues and Romansk have it, but in the sense of rising and falling. French falls toward the end of a sentence if I remember. Even more complex is my faint memory of French composition which inductive instead of deductive.

It is cool to compare differntials and similarities across types.

For example, Polynesian languages, like Chinese has no tense but markers. But they also have singular, dual inclusive and dual exclusive.

Egyptian has all these cool redundant characteristics.

Finnish and Hungarian have almost no prepositions. How they learn the level of inflection is amazing. In the Slavic langauges, the proper emphasis depends on whether one is speaking Russian, Bulgarian, Polish Czech or Serbo Croatian. It's cool.

Now I don't speak Arabic, but I remember trying to learn it, and its grammar, writing and sounds are amazing. It has several dark and light A sounds.

Hebrew is somewhat impoverished compared to Arabic.

I'm sorry I ramble.

What's weird are the unwritten, oral langauges. They seem to have lesser developed grammar, sufficient to communicate agrarian stuff, but the sounds are often very difficult to discern.

Remember the weird language you were tested upon prior to entering the MTC, that was Farsi, the language of the Hill People in Iran and Turkey.

The guy in the Mtc who taught us spoken twenty languages. 20. Adn Professor Nibley was amazing. Seattle may belittle him, but those who met or knew him, would never belittle a very, gentle, scholarly and amazingly talented man.

Did you know Greek, probably long before its classical period had tones? And yet there remain four tonal langauges in Europe, Swedish, Norwegian, and I think Danish and Icelandic.

Those who speak Thai are amazing, as its tonal pattern is complex. Not as bad as Cantonese, but one of our guys admitted to learning it and Tagolog, one of the Austranesian languages of the Phillipines. I envy him.