The "LDS young adults" don't commit suicide study

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Lying wouldn't be the right word.

Was Delbert Stapely lying? Do I need to link the Delbert Stapely letter for you again?

Delbert Stapely <> President Thomas S Monson

[MikeWaters]

The church studies factors that lead to youth being active adults. I doubt they consider those efforts fooishness.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Have either you or Indy read the study?

Why does one necessarily decide this study is shoddy? It seems an adequate job was made to try to reach an objective standard. You may fully agree with it, but then an objective standard would be difficult to measure.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The church studies factors that lead to youth being active adults. I doubt they consider those efforts fooishness.

BYU's Sociology department did a fairly comprehensive study about 10 years ago now that researched some of these issues.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Have either you or Indy read the study?

Like anyone cares here. SoCalCoug thought he'd be clever and challenge me to poke at the IPCC global warming report and when I made a very quick critical observation about their own admitted lack of historical solar irradiance data, crickets flooded the room.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

That's why the church should just stick to its guns and simply state what God has said on the subject and allow that to be sufficient for their explanatory needs. After that point, people can pray and get their own spiritual witness if President Monson is lying or not.

I dont think ThoMo is lying about anything. This whole Prop 8 process is political, not doctrinal.

When my Bishop and I were talking about Prop 8 yesterday, he referenced a study in Norway that shows that the rate of heterosexual marriage has declined steadily over the past decade or so.....not coincidentally, Norway allows for gay marriage. So Bishop's conclusion was that the study illustrated the damaging effects gay marriage can have on traditional marriage. He said this to the 2 priests that were sitting there listening to us chat.

I didnt even bother refuting his point. I know he meant well, but wow....that was some sloppy extrapolation. Bishop is a good guy, though. I like working with him. And for all I know, he is also being asked to toe the company line on this one, so he is resorting to junk science to try to sound credible.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I dont think ThoMo is lying about anything. This whole Prop 8 process is political, not doctrinal.

When my Bishop and I were talking about Prop 8 yesterday, he referenced a study in Norway that shows that the rate of heterosexual marriage has declined steadily over the past decade or so.....not coincidentally, Norway allows for gay marriage. So Bishop's conclusion was that the study illustrated the damaging effects gay marriage can have on traditional marriage. He said this to the 2 priests that were sitting there listening to us chat.

I didnt even bother refuting his point. I know he meant well, but wow....that was some sloppy extrapolation. Bishop is a good guy, though. I like working with him. And for all I know, he is also being asked to toe the company line on this one, so he is resorting to junk science to try to sound credible.

Marriage has been declining in the USA over the past 40 years, and there has been no gay marriage for almost all of that time.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Marriage has been declining in the USA over the past 40 years, and there has been no gay marriage for almost all of that time.

Clearly this was the very first thing that popped into my head. His premise was incredibly easy to expose.

Like I said, I didnt even bother refuting it.

I am hoping for something more convincing over the next few Sacrament meetings, but I am expecting more of the "studies" that Indy disdains. I would not be shocked if there are a few references to anonymous gay people who made the switch back over and are now happy and healthy.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Why does one necessarily decide this study is shoddy? It seems an adequate job was made to try to reach an objective standard. You may fully agree with it, but then an objective standard would be difficult to measure.

Here's the issue I have with it.

They're defining active LDS as worthy LDS, i.e. current with their priesthood advancement.

This seperation is OK, but you can't reach conclusions about the LDS church, culture in entirety in the study. You can say, living the standards of the church makes you less prone to suicide, but you can't refute theories that LDS culture makes suicide more likely or that pressure or stress from LDS culture is negative, etc.

You can't seperate active LDS and inactive LDS in this study. They were raised in the same way by the same families in a lot of cases. You have to look at the group in total if you want to see how LDS teachings/culture/stress/etc can affect the likilhood of suicide.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Here's the issue I have with it.

They're defining active LDS as worthy LDS, i.e. current with their priesthood advancement.

This seperation is OK, but you can't reach conclusions about the LDS church, culture in entirety in the study. You can say, living the standards of the church makes you less prone to suicide, but you can't refute theories that LDS culture makes suicide more likely or that pressure or stress from LDS culture is negative, etc.

You can't seperate active LDS and inactive LDS in this study. They were raised in the same way by the same families in a lot of cases. You have to look at the group in total if you want to see how LDS teachings/culture/stress/etc can affect the likilhood of suicide.

Your objections to the definitions and conclusions are noted, but I'm not certain a different standard could be measured.

What other standard is measurable?