shooting guns at campouts

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Yes.

For someone slight of stature, with no experience shooting guns, shooting fully automatic would be more difficult, and certainly more dangerous.

I think you are assuming someone that lots of experience with guns, and I make no such assumption.

No, I am assuming close, careful, and knowledgeable adult supervision. I shot an M-16 when I was a kid and loved it. The recoil was quite tame.

But this is pretty much a moot point anyway, given the scarcity of fully-automatic guns.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

No, I am assuming close, careful, and knowledgeable adult supervision. I shot an M-16 when I was a kid and loved it. The recoil was quite tame.

But this is pretty much a moot point anyway, given the scarcity of fully-automatic guns.

I think your argument doesn't make sense. It's as if you are arguing there is no difference between any guns, short of a .50 caliber in terms of safety for new users.

For example, a 1-lb trigger pull would be more dangerous for a new user than a 8-lb trigger pull.

Some people just aren't careful, even when they have been carefully instructed. Some people are stupid.

They turn their body, and turn the gun at the same time, and you have a situation where a gun is pointing at a person. This happens instantly.

Last time we shot, I had to tell each kid about 5 times "GET YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!"

It's for reasons like this that a rifle would be safer than a pistol with someone who is new to guns (and is stupid).

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think your argument doesn't make sense. It's as if you are arguing there is no difference between any guns, short of a .50 caliber in terms of safety for new users.

For example, a 1-lb trigger pull would be more dangerous for a new user than a 8-lb trigger pull.

Some people just aren't careful, even when they have been carefully instructed. Some people are stupid.

They turn their body, and turn the gun at the same time, and you have a situation where a gun is pointing at a person. This happens instantly.

Last time we shot, I had to tell each kid about 5 times "GET YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!"

It's for reasons like this that a rifle would be safer than a pistol with someone who is new to guns (and is stupid).

Yes, but that argument can be used both ways. People shouldn't assume that a lower caliber gun is substantially safer than a higher caliber gun for example. Both are lethal.

On the rare occasions that we use pistols, the boys only handle the pistol right as they are about to shoot. An adult hands it to the boy, stands by his side, and immediately takes it after the shot.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Yes, but that argument can be used both ways. People shouldn't assume that a lower caliber gun is substantially safer than a higher caliber gun for example. Both are lethal.

On the rare occasions that we use pistols, the boys only handle the pistol right as they are about to shoot. An adult hands it to the boy, stands by his side, and immediately takes it after the shot.

the reason being, of course, is that it is more dangerous.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the reason being, of course, is that it is more dangerous.

Yes, and all are more dangerous than water balloons.

[Archaea]

I don't see a reason for novices, and I would assume most scouts should be regarded as novices, to use anything other than a 22 caliber, bolt action, and perhaps a 410 pump or over under shotgun.

I agree with Lebowski that all weapons need to be treated respectivefully. And I am concerned with how screwy scouts are. Yet, shooting can be taught as I was taught in a cautious manner. In my mind, one starts with the low caliber, and only after some degree of mastery is achieved does one move up the ladder of fire power. Plus it's cheaper to use lower caliber weapons, which was the main reason I usually practiced with 22s.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't see a reason for novices, and I would assume most scouts should be regarded as novices, to use anything other than a 22 caliber, bolt action, and perhaps a 410 pump or over under shotgun.

I agree with Lebowski that all weapons need to be treated respectivefully. And I am concerned with how screwy scouts are. Yet, shooting can be taught as I was taught in a cautious manner. In my mind, one starts with the low caliber, and only after some degree of mastery is achieved does one move up the ladder of fire power. Plus it's cheaper to use lower caliber weapons, which was the main reason I usually practiced with 22s.

Problem is that I don't own a 22 or a 410. Much less a single-shot bolt-action 22 (which is the only kind officially permitted).

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

our troop has a long history of shooting at campouts, and we've never had a NRA certified instructor/leader.

We've shot guns with the boys for years and only this year did we finally get one of the leaders NRA certified. If there isn't one present, I believe technically it cannot be filed under a BSA tour permit and won't be covered under the troop insurance policy.

We usually just called them scout activities until the guns came out, then they magically turned into a church youth activity.

There are similar "fuzzy" requirements for rock climbing and repelling. IIRC, the church allows kids to repel, but not climb. Scouts require a leader to have gone through the Climb On Safely course. I think I'm the only adult in the history of our ward to have gone through this class, but there are probably a half dozen guys in our ward who are more qualified to run a safe climbing activity than I am. The class basically told us that if there is a chance of a rockslide or lightening storm, you might want to cancel the activity.

[MikeWaters]

according to BSA, boy scouts can't shoot anything but a single-shot .22.

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss08.html

That's bullcrap. So I guess we will be transitioning to youth activity when we shoot.

I think the .22 is best for the young guys.

I have a rule. If you aren't strong enough to hold the gun steady, you aren't allowed to shoot it.

We had a deacon that shot Farah's Kahr 9mm. The slide wouldn't return because he kept limp wristing it. He was going to shoot a 12ga but I took it away when he couldn't point it without waving up and down.

They sure make weak kids these days.

Probably a good idea to stick to rifles. Harder to accidentally point a rifle in the wrong direction.

[MikeWaters]

It costs at least $250 to become NRA certified.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/train...ate=TX&Type=IT