08-13-2007, 04:52 PM | #21 |
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08-13-2007, 04:58 PM | #22 |
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Copenhagen. Vor Frue Kirke, or "Church of our Lady."
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εν αρχη ην ο λογος |
08-13-2007, 05:00 PM | #23 |
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Will Bagley's MMM commentary on the PBS special was interesting. He basically implied there is enough circumstantial evidence to support the premise that BY was involved. I understand that Bagley is a member; how does he fit into the "objective historian" category?
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08-13-2007, 05:13 PM | #24 |
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Let me ask this (I'm sure it's less than 50/50 anyone will have the gumption to answer). Given what we know about Mormon culture and respect for chain of comand even today, and the size of the Mormon community at that time and Brigham Young's stature and presence in it, how much sense does it make that the actual perpetrators of the crime did this on their own initiative?
This reminds me more of the Manson murders than anything else. Charles Manson was never at the scene of any murder for which he was convicted. The prosecutor's theory, which carried the day, was that he was the puppeteer of the Tate LaBianca murderers who wielded the knives. Obviously, such a case could only be proven circumstantially.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
08-13-2007, 05:20 PM | #25 | |
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I can also easily understand it got carried away at the local level. I don't have a "dog" in this fight over whether Brigham Young did or didn't have it done. I am quite frankly more concerned with those who think the HC was divinely given. |
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08-13-2007, 05:35 PM | #26 | |
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Not wanting to shrink from your 50/50 challenge, I will gingerly dip my toe in and respond. Certainly BY's leadership style was "top down"; he expected nothing less than complete obedience - his tolerance threshold was non-existent. The question in my mind is how much day-to-day control did he exert over events occurring 200 miles away? Given what we do know, how would today's justice system treat BY? Would he be charged with conspiracy? One cause and effect element of MMM that is not fully understood is the assassination of P.P.Pratt by his wife's legal husband in Arkansas, and her subsequent arrival in SLC on 7/24/1857. History documents that her recount of the events inflamed the Saints and there was no love lost for anyone from Arkansas. Clearly there are more subtleties to MMM than the attack itself. From my idealistic perspective there is the possibility a conspiracy occurred - I just do not have enough credible information to make an objective assessment. Last edited by Requiem; 08-13-2007 at 10:33 PM. Reason: spelling |
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08-13-2007, 05:38 PM | #27 | |
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Few would dispute that Brigham Young contributed to an already hostile climate with inflamatory rhetoric. Anything beyond that is conjecture. |
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08-13-2007, 06:24 PM | #28 | |
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He did contribute to the inflammatory atmosphere and should be faulted, but that's a far cry from the ordering of 120 murders. Does he bear some responsibility? Yes, but not as an actual planner, or commander who desired it. I'd be willing to look at the evidence piece by piece to pick it apart.
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08-13-2007, 09:07 PM | #29 |
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I have been to that chapel in Copenhagen. It's gorgeous.
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08-13-2007, 09:10 PM | #30 | |
Charon
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"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
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