Palestinian Right of Return - Page 26 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

myboynoah · 05-23-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Israel needs to make some moves to show it is acting in good faith.

1. stop building the wall.
2. pass laws against discrimination of Arab Israeli citizens, and enforce them.
3. give the Palestinians back much of their water.
4. allow Palestinians freedom of movement

Palestinians in turn need to turn down the violence and the rhetoric (same goes with the Israelis).

It just goes to show how few cards the Palestinians have. All they really have is violence. They have no power otherwise, nothing to offer, because everything has already been taken.

That's it from the Palestinians? "Turn down" the violence and rhetoric?

How about cessation of violience and an explicit recognition of Israel's right to exist and having Hamas rescind its call for the destruction of Israel for starters? How about Hamas/Palestinian security forces excerting authority in its territory to stem Palestinian violience against Israelis, even cooperation with Israel to do so?

As few cards as the Palestinians have, they should play them.

MikeWaters · 05-23-2008, 05:09 PM

How much closer has Palestine come to their hopes when the violence has ramped down?

I think you will find your answer there, why Palestinians voted in Hamas.

creekster · 05-23-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How much closer has Palestine come to their hopes when the violence has ramped down?

I think you will find your answer there, why Palestinians voted in Hamas.

"ramped down"? What does that mean? You sound like an indulgent parent.

MikeWaters · 05-23-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

"ramped down"? What does that mean? You sound like an indulgent parent.

If you study the history you will see there have been times when violence has been more prevalent and vice versa.

I think Indy's implied suggestion of giving arms and weapons to the Palestinians was interesting.

Indy Coug · 05-23-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

google "Intifada". As an example of violence going up.

I think Indy's implied suggestion of giving arms and weapons to the Palestinians was interesting.

Implied suggestion? Yeah, that's a creative interpretation to be sure.

creekster · 05-23-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

google "Intifada". As an example of violence going up.

I think Indy's implied suggestion of giving arms and weapons to the Palestinians was interesting.

I haven't followed thi sthread so am treading lightly. Believe it or not, I am familiar wiht the intifada. My point is htat in the current context expecting Israel to make the concessions you outline while asking only that violence by palestinians be curbed is a unduly one-sided appproach.

MikeWaters · 05-23-2008, 05:18 PM

You will see that the non-violent tactics used in the First Intifada led to huge retribution from Israel.

Tell me, who is the oppressor?

SeattleUte · 05-23-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You will see that the non-violent tactics used in the First Intifada led to huge retribution from Israel.

Tell me, who is the oppressor?

Yup. That picture says it all. You win, Waters. Palestinians are innocent. Your reasoning and rhetorical skills are simply overpowering.

Now you're going to tell us that suicide bombers in Israel, Hezbollah missiles, etc. a big lie. Is the Hollocast a lie too?

MikeWaters · 05-23-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Yup. That picture says it all. You win, Waters. Palestinians are innocent. Your reasoning and rhetorical skills are simply overpowering.

Now you're going to tell us that suicide bombers in Israel, Hezbollah missiles, etc. a big lie. Is the Hollocast a lie too?

Then allow arms shipments in Palestine if you want them to stop fighting asynchronously.

If you want them to stop fighting PERIOD, then freaking come to the table and put something on it.

SeattleUte · 05-23-2008, 05:35 PM

Waters, you might as well join those saying we asked for 9/11. You're right there. You've almost reached the reductio ad absurdum of your whole thesis. We've supported the Israeli oppressors, with arms, money, we don't listen to Palestinian complaints. You said yourself Palestinian terrorism is their only option. What do we expect Palestinians and their friends to do? Not fight back the best way they can? We asked for 9/11.

--MikeWaters

How have I misstated Waters' reasoning?

05-23-2008, 05:35 PM	#260
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Waters, you might as well join those saying we asked for 9/11. You're right there. You've almost reached the reductio ad absurdum of your whole thesis. We've supported the Israeli oppressors, with arms, money, we don't listen to Palestinian complaints. You said yourself Palestinian terrorism is their only option. What do we expect Palestinians and their friends to do? Not fight back the best way they can? We asked for 9/11. --MikeWaters How have I misstated Waters' reasoning? __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

05-23-2008, 05:09 PM	#252
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,368	How much closer has Palestine come to their hopes when the violence has ramped down? I think you will find your answer there, why Palestinians voted in Hamas.

05-23-2008, 05:18 PM	#257
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,368	You will see that the non-violent tactics used in the First Intifada led to huge retribution from Israel. Tell me, who is the oppressor?