PBS Special

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by jay santos

What does this say for Oklahoma State? They take our religion department retreads for their history department. At least we don't really even try to make our religion department out to be a legit academic group do we? And Ok St passes for a research institution?

I'm pretty sure it was Oregon State. But your point is well taken.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

I'm pretty sure it was Oregon State. But your point is well taken.

Even better. Our history department would never take our religion department's retreads but Pac 10 will.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I think it was "violent" to her because she wanted to remain a part of the Church.

The problem with most intellectuals who have been excommunicated is that they have no humility when confronted by their bishops and stake presidents. If they would simply act naive or say that they are sorry and they don't mean anything offensive, then excommunication or even disfellowship would be unlikely. All they have to do is act humble and submissive, and their problems would be minimized.

My point is that you can write a lot of different things and say a lot of different things about the Church within your family and among your friends, but once you come to Church and arrogantly push a "crazy liberal idea," then you're screwed.

Now if you push a crazy conservative idea (like Blacks are descendants of Cain), then you'll probably be just fine. Someone might tell you that you're wrong, but you won't get called in to see the Stake President.

For example, when I go to CougarBoard and suggest that we should kill every last Iraqi in order to win the war, my opinion is treated as a valid viewpoint. Your average conservative Mormon just respectfully disagrees with me...perhaps suggesting that it would be better to kill 20% instead. If I were to suggest on CougarBoard that we pull out of Iraq immediately and that George Bush is a criminal, then I would be attacked and verbally abused.

For the record, I have heard excommunication described as a violent act before. And I thought Toscano was being a little dramatic but her take on excommunication is valid. It's not something I feel compelled to defend her on because her approach was a little aggressive/violent herself, but I get the point.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by jay santos

For the record, I have heard excommunication described as a violent act before. And I thought Toscano was being a little dramatic but her take on excommunication is valid. It's not something I feel compelled to defend her on because her approach was a little aggressive/violent herself, but I get the point.

Church discipline is a step on the road to repentance. It is no more and no less "violent" than any suffering required of us by God as a consequence of our sins.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

For the record, I have heard excommunication described as a violent act before. And I thought Toscano was being a little dramatic but her take on excommunication is valid. It's not something I feel compelled to defend her on because her approach was a little aggressive/violent herself, but I get the point.

I agree that she was overly dramatic. She obviously enjoyed being a victim.

The main issue is that we don't really have freedom of speech in the Church. In other words, you cannot say whatever you want and remain a member of the Church. This makes sense to me because it helps prevent wild speculation and chaos. On the other hand, I think there is a double standard where extremely conservative crazy statements are allowed, while liberal crazy statements are aggressively punished.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

Church discipline is a step on the road to repentance. It is no more and no less "violent" than any suffering required of us by God as a consequence of our sins.

Yes I know. I know a thousand people like you. And I've heard their take before. And I incorporated that take into my opinion before I stated it in this thread.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

I'm pretty sure it was Oregon State. But your point is well taken.

My bad. Blanket apology to all Oklahoma State folks.

[YOhio]

The MP of the Columbus-Ohio mission spoke in our sacrament meeting the week after it aired. From the pulpit he proclaimed the documentary anti-Mormon.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by YOhio

The MP of the Columbus-Ohio mission spoke in our sacrament meeting the week after it aired. From the pulpit he proclaimed the documentary anti-Mormon.

That's incredible.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

That's incredible.

This has to be part of the, "The Church said that it liked it only for PR reasons" rationalization.