Immaculate conception

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by aaronshaf

The historic Christian position is that, despite Brigham's mockery of the gospel passage, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and caused the miracle. It was truly a virgin conception and a virgin birth. God the Father doesn't have personal sperm.

Jesus is the "image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15).

"To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:17)

Maybe it was invisible sperm.

Your version sounds a lot like "no one knows, no one should care".

[Archaea]

So rather than being monotheistic, you're really henotheistic. Thus you do not represent one God.

[MikeWaters]

God, did you hear that? Aaronshaf says you don't have any boys.

I think I'd be careful making comments like that.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by aaronshaf

The historic Christian position is that, despite Brigham's mockery of the gospel passage, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and caused the miracle. It was truly a virgin conception and a virgin birth. God the Father doesn't have personal sperm.

Jesus is the "image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15).

"To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:17)

Brigham did not disagree that Mary "was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1: 18). He was simply emphasizing that for him, that overshadowing did not make Jesus the son of the Spirit, but rather that he was the son of the Father. That is what, in context, Brigham is trying to teach. This quote has been taken out of context by more critics of the LDS faith than I can count, and in a debate between Walter Martin and Van Hale from the late 1980s that I listened to just the other day.

Any other worn out distortions you want to throw out?

[UtahDan]

Here is the authority for the proposition:

"The Saviour, Jesus Christ, begotten of God, was in the likeness of his Father, resembling him so nearly that He said on one occasion that "He that hath seen me has seen the Father." I see a little boy. He has hair, he has eyes and he has a face which resembles his father's, and when he grows up we say that we cannot tell him from his father, so perfect is resemblance between the boy and his father. The boy looks like the father and the father looks like the boy; he looks a little older; of course you can tell the father from the boy because he is a little older than his son. Jesus Christ was created just like his Father; had the same features; same frame, same kind of body and was so like Him when you saw him you saw an exact likeness or similitude of His Father.

You all know that your fathers are indeed your fathers and that your mothers are indeed your mothers you all know that don't you? You cannot deny it. Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was begotten not of God but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother. This is nonsense. Why will not the world receive the truth? Why will they not believe the Father when he says that Jesus Christ is His only begotten Son? Why will they try to explain this truth away and make mystery of it?"

THE BOX ELDER NEWS, THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 1915
PRESIDENT JOS. F. SMITH'S ADDRESS, SUNDAY MORNING

http://messenger.mormonfundamentalis...tent/view/1/5/ (this is the best link I can find but it jives pretty well with I remember this serrmon consisting of)

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by aaronshaf

The historic Christian position is that, despite Brigham's mockery of the gospel passage, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and caused the miracle. It was truly a virgin conception and a virgin birth. God the Father doesn't have personal sperm.

Jesus is the "image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15).

"To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen." (1 Timothy 1:17)

Interesting. That's also the historic Islamic position:

Islam declares that Jesus was miraculously born from a virgin mother with no father. From the Holy Qur'an:

"And mention Mary in the book. When she withdrew to a place east of her family. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our angel, and he appeared to her as a man in all respects. She said: 'I seek refuge in God against you if you are righteous.' He said: 'I am only a Messenger of Thy Lord to grant to you a pure boy.' She said: 'How can I have a son, and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?' He said: 'So (it will be). Thy Lord says: "It is easy for Me; and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter decreed. Then she conceived him; and withdrew with him to a remote place. And the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: 'Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten. So a voice came to her from beneath her: 'Grieve not, surely thy Lord has provided a stream beneath thee. And shake towards thee the trunk of the palm-tree, it will drop on thee fresh ripe dates. So eat and drink and be pleased. Then if thou seest any human, say: "Surely I have vowed a fasting for the sake of the Beneficent, so I will not speak to any human today." 19:16-26

The historic BigFatMeanie position is that, despite what Brigham Young, Bruce R. McConkie, or any other Mormon person says, despite Aaronshaf's interpretations of scripture or what Aaronshaf says true Christians are supposed to think, and despite what Mohammed or Sheik Abdullah Bin Zaed say I'm supposed to think, I plain just don't know. Hopefully I'll find out in the afterlife. Do I like discussing it? Sure - it's interesting to think and speculate about. Do I think it has any bearing on my salvation? No, I do not.

Cheers,

BFM

[Hazzard]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I saw an episode of Scrubs this season, and JD's girlfriend got pregnant without actual sex. Things happened prematurely and a sneakly little sperm did the dirty deed.

I'm sure it's possible.

I have a friend who claims that he fathered not one, but two children without ever "penetrating." I like to call it the Magic Bullet Theory.

[MikeWaters]

Why is sex so evil among these evangelicals?

We are to believe that Christ never married, never had sex. We are to believe that in the afterlife, there is no marriage and no sex. We are to believe that Mary never had sex. We are to believe that Paul taught that we should not have sex.

I don't get the whole "because mormons have a different view on sex, they are satanic" thing.

I've had two brain cells assigned to this topic since I was nineteen. But I'm going to reassign them to figuring out passing efficiency. Something useful. Heaven knows that it is useless to bother with these sorts of "attacks" (my position is "what is there to attack?" our doctrines are beautiful).

NOTE TO BG: just so Non-Mormons don't get confused, there is no official doctrine on whether Christ was married or had sex. It's my personal opinion that it would be just fine if Christ had.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Why is sex so evil among these evangelicals?

We are to believe that Christ never married, never had sex. We are to believe that in the afterlife, there is no marriage and no sex. We are to believe that Mary never had sex. We are to believe that Paul taught that we should not have sex.

I don't get the whole "because mormons have a different view on sex, they are satanic" thing.

I've had two brain cells assigned to this topic since I was nineteen. But I'm going to reassign them to figuring out passing efficiency. Something useful. Heaven knows that it is useless to bother with these sorts of "attacks" (my position is "what is there to attack?" our doctrines are beautiful).

NOTE TO BG: just so Non-Mormons don't get confused, there is no official doctrine on whether Christ was married or had sex. It's my personal opinion that it would be just fine if Christ had.

If your brain cells are as wimpy as mine, you'll need more than two of them to figure out passing efficiency. I recommend that you put them to work inventing a sure-fire female aphrodesiac. I've had my spare brain cells working on a female aphrodesiac for about 20 years now - still no luck. Maybe if we combine our available brain cells we could make progress on this task.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

If your brain cells are as wimpy as mine, you'll need more than two of them to figure out passing efficiency. I recommend that you put them to work inventing a sure-fire female aphrodesiac. I've had my spare brain cells working on a female aphrodesiac for about 20 years now - still no luck. Maybe if we combine our available brain cells we could make progress on this task.

Oysters and the bible work well, just read her the part about her being your servant, my wife gets so turned on by that, i get laid everytime. Her not speaking in church is another one. Although she showed that to the bishop once and got out of giving a talk, so i had to take up the whole time myself.