Spiritual Journey with Variety

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I should add, that if you are indeed who you say you are, you should not be offended by skepticism. Because it has nothing to do with you. But rather, has to do with the history of this board.

I'm not offended. I appreciate your honesty and willingness to be open about your concerns. Thanks, Mike.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Valentinus1

I understand any hesitation anyone may have. Aside from my snide initial comment about Hafen (I think it was my first post), I believe I have been fairly diplomatic and open to learning. I owe a good deal of that to Archaea.

I didn't join the church to 'get the inside scoop' on Mormonism. I am not concerned about trivial things. I will admit that my fascination with Gnosticism triggered a great deal of fascination with LDS theology. Did that play any part in my conversion? Probably. Is that wrong? I don't think so and I hope not.

I'm not looking for attention. I hope that by beginning this thread I didn't let off a stench of extreme narcissism.

I suppose anyone who was an anti-Mormon (of varying degrees) who then converts to the church could be subjected to pessimism, cynicism and question. But that is all trivial. I am not going to entertain someone's gauging of my being a real Mormon.

I also suppose that you could entertain the same skepticism when an Atheist somehow becomes a Christian. Lee Strobel for example. I am fascinated by his conversion. When I first read 'The Case for Christ' several years ago, I was skeptical of his story.

My ignorance made me weigh 2 possible options:

1) He was not really a believer as he so claims and is dooping the Christian masses to get rich off of a good Orthodox book sale, or

2) He was a well educated person who had been dooped by Christian propaganda and promises.

Obviously, I was biased and misguided.

In your skepticism, Mike there are the same options:

1) Valentinus is a deceitful and manipulative liar claiming a spiritual experience of conversion to LDS to further some underlying personal agenda, or

2) He actually had a confirming experience to move forward with the LDS church despite the controversy of sexual orientation or any other problems that could arise.

Honestly, Mike, the sexual orientation thing really is a non-issue. I am not going to ask the leadership of the church to change the church's position on the matter. I may not agree with everything they say or think they may know but I'm not going to disrupt the church and its three-fold mission. We have disgruntled Mormons and anti-Mormons for that.

I apologized for my comments under the Hafen thread. Still, I have nothing, as you said, to prove.

Well thank you for your report.

I have chosen to accept you are who you say you are, because I'd rather hope for the good and deal with the bad, than hope for the bad and deal with the good. I experience my share of cynicism.

So I understand Mike's skepticism, but if you're fooling me, then you may have a good laugh at my expense. If you're not, then I hope by showing some good will, understanding and appreciation is extended mutually.

And your experience as related here is unique so I appreciate unique, honest experiential horizons.

My baptism was long ago enough I don't remember the specifics, other than I was not as prepared as I should have been, and I did not understand the magnitude of the occurrence, but I felt happy to join the community.

[MikeWaters]

The question is not whether Valentinus' conversion is sincere.

The question is whether Valentinus even exists.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The question is not whether Valentinus' conversion is sincere.

The question is whether Valentinus even exists.

I understand.

However, if my interaction assumes Valentinus exists and is sincere, then it is a test upon me, how I might be able to interact in person with such a person. Again, this is my choice in this instance. Other times I have been quite belligerent.

If I am fool, then I am a fool by choice.

[MikeWaters]

I baptized a gay guy with AIDS on my mission.

I have no problem with a gay person joining the church. I don't think I would have a problem interacting with such a person.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The question is not whether Valentinus' conversion is sincere.

The question is whether Valentinus even exists.

This question can be begged about anyone. Still, I understand Mike and I still thank you for your honesty.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I baptized a gay guy with AIDS on my mission.

I have no problem with a gay person joining the church. I don't think I would have a problem interacting with such a person.

If that is what you think my post suggested, I apologize. What I meant, and this comes from a gay friend of mine, is "Why would a gay person join the Mormon Church?"

For me, it was not about civil rights or anything pretentious. It was about the spiritual experience.

I do wonder how many GLBT persons have listened to the missionaries and felt the impressions to believe but stopped short because of the LDS attitude toward homosexuality.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I baptized a gay guy with AIDS on my mission.

I have no problem with a gay person joining the church. I don't think I would have a problem interacting with such a person.

Other than a few lesbians with whom I am quite friendly, I must admit to very limited contact with openly gay persons. I have had little interaction, not necessarily by design but simply by happenstance.

I don't find myself treating anybody in a discriminatory fashion. But your story and that of others here and there have caused me to reflect upon my thoughts and actions.

[Valentinus1]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Well thank you for your report.

I have chosen to accept you are who you say you are, because I'd rather hope for the good and deal with the bad, than hope for the bad and deal with the good. I experience my share of cynicism.

So I understand Mike's skepticism, but if you're fooling me, then you may have a good laugh at my expense. If you're not, then I hope by showing some good will, understanding and appreciation is extended mutually.

And your experience as related here is unique so I appreciate unique, honest experiential horizons.

My baptism was long ago enough I don't remember the specifics, other than I was not as prepared as I should have been, and I did not understand the magnitude of the occurrence, but I felt happy to join the community.

I appreciate yours and Mike's honesty and concerns. It does not necessarily show negative attitude. In my opinion, it is a blessing. It is a reminder to me to reflect on what is real in my life.

Nothing said by either of you has been offensive. Hence the reason why I have not gone on the defense.

I take comfort in the fact that you had a different experience with different circumstances. It shows diversity where conversion to LDS is concerned. If conversion were typical or could be stereotyped...then I would be much more concerned or precautious about the decision.

I joined on a great leap of faith. That leap cannot be taken lightly. I recognize that I am responsible in most part for my conversion and take responsibility for any possible negative emotion that may occur.

The way I see it, converting to LDS has two very important parts to the 'small print'. Responsibility and Accountability.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Valentinus1

If that is what you think my post suggested, I apologize. What I meant, and this comes from a gay friend of mine, is "Why would a gay person join the Mormon Church?"

For me, it was not about civil rights or anything pretentious. It was about the spiritual experience.

I do wonder how many GLBT persons have listened to the missionaries and felt the impressions to believe but stopped short because of the LDS attitude toward homosexuality.

This experience is fascinating for me, but perplexing as well. I hope the journey rewards you.