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UtahDan · 09-10-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So the non-witness apostles don't feel bad.

Wasn't it BKP that was so appalled when a member asked him if he had seen Christ?

I've heard GBH say that revelation comes to him through the Spirit. He said it was the same to him, basically as it was to any faithful member, as to process.

Was BKP really appalled by that or is that Mormon lore? I would be surprised if any apostle were really appalled by that question. When your title is special witness and you are sustained as a prophet, seer and revelator I think it is one of the most natural questions in the world.

Now, that said, I can see a kind and patient leader explaining why it is a question he declines to answer. I can't see why it would be one he would take offense at. I would be surprised if the story were true.

My understanding of what GBH has said is exactly what yours is.

UtahDan · 09-10-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

At the bare minimum, they are special witnesses simply due to their calling and the priesthood keys they hold. That still holds regardless of whether or not they've seen Christ in the flesh.

Why would baring the mantle and holding the keys make them a "special" witness. I give "special" its ordinary meaning, to-wit: unlike other witnesses.

Tex · 09-10-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Why would baring the mantle and holding the keys make them a "special" witness. I give "special" its ordinary meaning, to-wit: unlike other witnesses.

Does not holding keys no one else holds make them unlike other witnesses?

Indy Coug · 09-10-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Why would baring the mantle and holding the keys make them a "special" witness. I give "special" its ordinary meaning, to-wit: unlike other witnesses.

Personally, it's my belief that most, if not all, of the Apostles have seen Christ in the flesh.

Why they don't explicitly state that fact is a very good question.

Tex · 09-10-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Personally, it's my belief that most, if not all, of the Apostles have seen Christ in the flesh.

Why they don't explicitly state that fact is a very good question.

I'm going to guess that it's based on the same principle as what's in D&C 10:37 and 11:22. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven (thank you Ecclesiates and the Byrds) and now is not the time for our fifteen leaders to march throughout the earth claiming they have personally seen Jesus.

But someday, I expect that time will come.

UtahDan · 09-10-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Does not holding keys no one else holds make them unlike other witnesses?

Sure, but they could all get matching tattoos and that would make them unlike other witnesses as well. I'm inferring that you think the answer to your question is yes. Why would holding keys, of itself, change the quality of witness they are? That was where I wasn't understanding you.

MikeWaters · 09-10-2007, 06:12 PM

I would love to do a film, starring Woody Allen, as newly called apostle, who frets mightily about whether he is adequate, and whether he has received or will receive a "special witness." It would be very funny.

UtahDan · 09-10-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Personally, it's my belief that most, if not all, of the Apostles have seen Christ in the flesh.

Why they don't explicitly state that fact is a very good question.

I agree, it is an interesting question. I think that based upon what they themselves have said one could justifiably reach the conclusion that they all have or none of them have.

I don't honestly have enough information to form an opinion as to whether they all have or any of them have. I do believe that collectively they are guided by inspiration. I have no idea whether that takes the form of heavenly visitations. I think we are given to believe that they struggle to receive inspiration in much the same way most of us do. Maybe heavenly visitation is a reward and has nothing to do with revelation, which happens by a different process. I just don't know.

UtahDan · 09-10-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I would love to do a film, starring Woody Allen, as newly called apostle, who frets mightily about whether he is adequate, and whether he has received or will receive a "special witness." It would be very funny.

I'm sure it is a poor reflection on me, but I wouldn't want to see the Lord. I'm in the group that would rather have the mountain placed on top of me so I could hide. I just don't think I would be comfortable in His presence. Maybe I'm wrong.

MikeWaters · 09-10-2007, 06:14 PM

haven't there been many cases in the scriptures in which people received heavenly visitation and were instructed to tell no one?

09-10-2007, 06:12 PM	#17
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,368	I would love to do a film, starring Woody Allen, as newly called apostle, who frets mightily about whether he is adequate, and whether he has received or will receive a "special witness." It would be very funny.

09-10-2007, 06:14 PM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,368	haven't there been many cases in the scriptures in which people received heavenly visitation and were instructed to tell no one?