Is the Church largely failing in its 3-fold mission?

[Clark Addison]

I think that it is an unanswerable question, because, while the effort is at an organizational level, the results are at an individual level. There are many successes, and many failures, but no way to quantify the overall effort and parcel out a grade.

There is (thank goodness) no metric to judge this by.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by All-American

I don't think any party present has the information necessary to say for certain that the church is largely failing in its three fold mission. The only numbers we have on any of the three are for baptisms, which, after the drop lasting up to 2004, have been going up (with no way to determine retention, of course)

Are missionaries serving going up? I told my wife when that whole "raising the bar" mandate went public that in a few years the Brethren would conclude that perhaps the bar should be raised but not so high that the sales force drops as far as it did.

Didn't Elder Ballard speak on the subject in General Conference a couple of years ago and instructed priesthood leaders that through repentence folks who had erred could still serve?

[8ballrollin]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Instead of taking the originating thread of this post off on another tangent, I thought I'd throw this out for discussion in a thread of its own.

I often wonder if I'm doing MY part of the lifting. I ask myself, "I'm I doing all I can - with my own life, family and the YM I work with?" Admittedly, I almost never expand this line of inquiry to the macro-level of the church. It mostly stays within the scope I list above because, frankly, it's much less than a secondary concern to me. And the older I get the wider that gap of concern between the micro and the macro has grown.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Are missionaries serving going up? I told my wife when that whole "raising the bar" mandate went public that in a few years the Brethren would conclude that perhaps the bar should be raised but not so high that the sales force drops as far as it did.

Didn't Elder Ballard speak on the subject in General Conference a couple of years ago and instructed priesthood leaders that through repentence folks who had erred could still serve?

2001: 60,850 missionaries, 292,612 baptisms. 4.81 baptisms per missionary.
2002: 61,638 missionaries, 283,138 baptisms. 4.59 baptisms per missionary.
2003: 56,237 missionaries, 242,923 baptisms. 4.32 baptisms per missionary.
2004: 51,067 missionaries, 241,239 baptisms. 4.72 baptisms per missionary.
2005: 52,060 missionaries, 243,108 baptisms. 4.70 baptisms per missionary.
2006: 53,164 missionaries, 272,845 baptisms. 5.13 baptisms per missionary.

2003 is when they started the talk about raising the bar. Preach my gospel was implemented in 2004.

[All-American]

Also: note BYU's record in football for each of those years.

2001: 12-2
2002: 5-7
2003: 5-6
2004: 5-6
2005: 6-6
2006: 11-2

Fairly convincing, I believe.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by All-American

Also: note BYU's record in football for each of those years.

2001: 12-2
2002: 5-7
2003: 5-6
2004: 5-6
2005: 6-6
2006: 11-2

Fairly convincing, I believe.

It sounds like raising the bar hurt BYU football in that there were more non-honor code abiding YM available to play football. All the worthy ones were on missions.

Perhaps Mendenhall is correct to focus more on those kids that are willing to abide by the rules, eh?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by All-American

2001: 60,850 missionaries, 292,612 baptisms. 4.81 baptisms per missionary.
2002: 61,638 missionaries, 283,138 baptisms. 4.59 baptisms per missionary.
2003: 56,237 missionaries, 242,923 baptisms. 4.32 baptisms per missionary.
2004: 51,067 missionaries, 241,239 baptisms. 4.72 baptisms per missionary.
2005: 52,060 missionaries, 243,108 baptisms. 4.70 baptisms per missionary.
2006: 53,164 missionaries, 272,845 baptisms. 5.13 baptisms per missionary.

2003 is when they started the talk about raising the bar. Preach my gospel was implemented in 2004.

What would be interesting to see is if the church has altered their missionary allocations to areas that are higher producing (Phillippines, Mexico and Southward, Africa, etc.) and scaled back on the number of missionaries in Scotland, Finland and North Dakota.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What would be interesting to see is if the church has altered their missionary allocations to areas that are higher producing (Phillippines, Mexico and Southward, Africa, etc.) and scaled back on the number of missionaries in Scotland, Finland and North Dakota.

Yes, this has been done, hasn't it? Weren't several European missions consolidated a couple of years back, with the total number of missionaries reduced by quite a bit?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

Yes, this has been done, hasn't it? Weren't several European missions consolidated a couple of years back, with the total number of missionaries reduced by quite a bit?

Goodness knows the Spain Las Palmas mission is no longer.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

It sounds like raising the bar hurt BYU football in that there were more non-honor code abiding YM available to play football. All the worthy ones were on missions.

Perhaps Mendenhall is correct to focus more on those kids that are willing to abide by the rules, eh?

Au contraire. Every year BYU had a losing season, baptisms went down. 2005 and 2006, baptisms went up. The success of BYU football and missionary work are directly correlated. To support the one is to cheer for the other. Clearly it is so.