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08-02-2007, 03:24 AM | #11 | ||
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It's not just a matter of anti-intellectualism; it's the notion that LDS leaders have abandoned their epistemological foundations for touchy-feely emotionalism. Not that it isn't their prerogative (they are, after all the leaders). It just strikes the intellectually minded as incongruous that a church with deep roots in individualism, millenialism, and intellectual bravado has shifted so far.
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08-02-2007, 03:37 AM | #12 | |
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For me, these academic discussions are interesting (like a hobby), but have nothing to do with my faith or lack thereof. So yes, I'm completely satisfied with that answer. |
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08-02-2007, 03:42 AM | #13 |
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Precisely. There are lessons to be learned and we aren't listening to what we are already being told.
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08-02-2007, 03:44 AM | #14 |
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Let me add my amen to that. It makes no sense to teach someone about orthogonals when they haven't even bothered to do Gaussian elimination first.
Last edited by Indy Coug; 08-02-2007 at 03:46 AM. |
08-02-2007, 03:44 AM | #15 |
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08-02-2007, 03:46 AM | #16 | |
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The miraculous revelations occurred during the time of Joseph Smith. Brigham Young bemoaned his lack of visionary insights. There is also the warning for us to beware if miracles and revelations among us cease. My question is more about what to anticipate, will we always be the same? I think not, and Solon's observations are interesting. We've actually moved from a dynamic, faith infused, revelatory body to a static, correlated, administrative body with little or no imagination. Perhaps we don't need imagination or faith.
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08-02-2007, 04:05 AM | #17 | |
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Allow me to offer this perspective. The argument was made that once the church was fully restored, these kinds of revelations were not as necessary. As Arch notes, for many, that doesn't feel right. The need for constant guidance is testified to by the mere existence of men whom we sustain as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators. I do not believe that we have reached a point where we have enough of God's word to be able to live our lives in accordance with his will; I don't know that we will ever reach that point. I think a big reason that we don't get verbatim revelations from God via the prophet is because of the changing role of the prophet in the dispensation of the fullness of times. In Israel, there was a hard and fast barrier between God and man, symbolically traversed on only one occasion each year (Yom Kippur, the day of Atonement) by the High Priest, who represented the people and/or Christ. Furthermore, communication with God to His people was based on a hierarchical system. Look at 1 Nephi 1: the Father charges the Son, who sends his Apostles, who give man his duties (and notice, the chiefest of them is the main actor). That hierarchy should be VERY familiar to endowed members of the church. One of Joseph Smith's missions was to remove the barrier between God and man. This not only meant removing the effects of the apostasy, but also restoring those ordinances of the priesthood that would bring a man into God's presence. It is true that we are to sustain and follow the prophet; nevertheless, Joseph Smith urged the saints to seek Him for themselves, and restored those ordinances necessary to approach God, enter into His presence, and receive His will for us on our own. We have been given the privelage of passing through the veil on our own, with no intercessory acting on our behalf as in ancient days. Were I called upon to do so, I could bear testimony of the fact that revelation from God to man is a frequent occurrence, citing specific examples in my life and in the lives of those who have entrusted me with some of their most sacred moments. It is real, it is available, and we have but to seek after it.
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08-02-2007, 04:13 AM | #18 | ||
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08-02-2007, 04:22 AM | #19 | |
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Better stated: that the bulk of the the revelations received by Joseph were for the purpose of restoring the church, and the priesthood ordinances which are the culmination of the restoration, is clear. I think the very evident drop-off of published "Thus Saith The Lord" revelations does not indicate a decreased flow of revelation; rather, it is indicative of the fact that communication between God and man has had the middlemen removed to a greater extent than has happened in the history of the world.
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08-02-2007, 03:35 PM | #20 | |
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Demanding churches are growing the fastest because they have the most to offer.
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