01-10-2008, 02:50 PM | #11 | |
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01-10-2008, 03:19 PM | #12 | |
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Logos only meant "word" outside the philosophical context because the learned Greek speakers who translated the Septuagint used "Logos" to describe the word of God. These learned Greek speaking Jews were fully imbued with Greek philosopy. It was the core subject matter at university, so to speak. There is no getting around it, Logos is a Greek creation; it's a Greek word. The Gospel of John was written in Greek. I see all the elements of the atonement doctrine in Philo's writings. This seems to me a mainstream view at least among philosphers and probably learned theologians outside FARMS. (Like Josephus (and unlike, say, Epicurus), Philo was revered by Christians through the ages. Thus, like Josephus' writings, his have come to us mostly intact. There's not much mystery to what at least Philo meant when he wrote Logos.) John and other early Christians only had to turn an abstract concept into a human being. "John's" use of the Word to describe Jesus is the ultimate step in a clear progression. This can't help but remind me of the Grand Inquisitor saying the people rejected their freedom for mystery and the authority of scripture or the Word. It could be a description of the evolution of the Logos and Greek philophy's ultimate absorption into Christianity until its restoration in the latter days. I don't know if Dostoevsky had this in mind; probably he did, at least subconsciously.
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01-10-2008, 03:26 PM | #13 |
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But Seattle your view ignores the conflicting archetype argument that the logos doctrine also existed within Hebrew culture independent of Greek thought.
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01-10-2008, 03:29 PM | #14 |
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So whats yer point? I don't mean the big point, but the point of raising this here and now.
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01-10-2008, 03:42 PM | #15 |
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But I'm saying your point about independence isn't factual. The Hebrews learned about the Logos from the Greeks. The Hebrew Bible talks about God and the word of God. The Hebrews who translated the Bible into Greek, the lingua franca of the educated classes, and expounded it decided that the term Logos fit as far as interaction between God and man, including God's words. As Philo's writings demonstrate, Jews of his background and generation (including probably John and Paul) looked around them and saw the indubitable value of Greek philosophy and Classical culture, and they labored to harmonize the Bible with Greek philosophy. This explicitly was Philo's undertaking. Harmonizing those two traditions was Philo's life work, it could be said. Philo was like the Romneys; he came from a rich, worldy Jewish family who were prominent in the Roman world. HIs nephew became an apostate and governor of Egypt. Again, Philo was not a Christian, but he's been adopted as such by later generations.
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01-10-2008, 03:43 PM | #16 |
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Seattle appears to have come to the belief that the good things in Christianity all came more or less from Greek philosophy. That Christianity is merely an artifact of the fusion between Greek philosophy and the tribal traditions of the Hebrews.
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01-10-2008, 03:45 PM | #17 |
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Right; that's his big point. But what's his point here? He raises it here why? Becasue he got tired of somebody at FARMS kicking his butt on the topic? Becasue he wanted to needle us more? What is the point here and now?
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01-10-2008, 03:46 PM | #18 | |
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And it is far from proven even among the scholars that the Hebrews learned the logos doctrine in the tanakh from the Greeks. I know it's a nice, little tidy explanation, but it's too Farmsish for my tastes and explains too homogeneous of a fusion.
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01-10-2008, 03:47 PM | #19 | |
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01-10-2008, 03:47 PM | #20 |
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This is a Bible studies forum.
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