Stake Conf. Topic: Sexaul Intimacy

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Bruincoug

I think that you're right Barbara (and others) -- women and girls' basing self-esteem purely on attractiveness--often sexualized attractiveness -- to men is a sad reality.

I think that it comes about, in part, from popular culture's vacuous emphasis on little else. On TV, in movies, at high school, etc., sexual appeal is king.

But, even within the church -- and among people who understand that there's more to self-worth than sexual appeal -- the self-esteem is weighed down by a desire to be sexually attractive. In a way, the church's emphases mere add pressure to be attractive to men -- rather than to achieve in ways where attractiveness be damned.

What I mean:
1. LDS girls might understand that they are daughters of God, have unique self-worth etc., BUT
2. They are also inculcated with the idea that women's highest calling is to be mothers and that celestial marriage should be their number one goal.
3. Every girl knows -- long before popular culture exaggerates it -- that physical appearance plays a strong role in dating and marriages decisions.
4. In order to achieve the goals that the church most emphasizes (and that grown-up LDS women may base their self-esteem on), LDS girls realize that the more physically attractive / sexy / beautiful one is, the greater her advantage in the dating/marriage sweepstakes. Or, in other words, "how can someone who is ugly find someone to marry in the temple and have children with?" And "If I can't find someone to marry, am I less in God's eyes?"

True, popular culture may exaggerate our emphasis on sexiness or beauty. But, Mormon values set up many girls for similar self-esteem problems.

I got a good chuckle out of this. The hidden LDS message to girls is: get sexy or you won't get saved. Heh.

Give me a break.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Tex

I got a good chuckle out of this. The hidden LDS message to girls is: get sexy or you won't get saved. Heh.

Give me a break.

Give *me* a break. I doubt there's anyone else here that would deny that the endall and beall of the majority of young LDS females' existence is to procure a husband, ideally as early as possible.

Bruin's point is the message is still that the point is to attract a man. The means promoted may be different, but the objective is the same.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Give *me* a break. I doubt there's anyone else here that would deny that the endall and beall of the majority of young LDS females' existence is to procure a husband, ideally as early as possible.

Bruin's point is the message is still that the point is to attract a man. The means promoted may be different, but the objective is the same.

Whereas Tex's objective in life has been to repel the advances of all women. Methinks he has likely been successful in his efforts.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Give *me* a break. I doubt there's anyone else here that would deny that the endall and beall of the majority of young LDS females' existence is to procure a husband, ideally as early as possible.

Bruin's point is the message is still that the point is to attract a man. The means promoted may be different, but the objective is the same.

That's ALWAYS going to eb the pont, isn't it, at some l;evel? That's why we are here from both a religious point of view (mulitply and replenish) and a gneetic POV (spread genes) no matter what you do to young women most of them will still want to attract a man. I fail to see hwat is so remarkable about that observation. How we do it and how those efforts fit into our society and culture otherwsie is really the quesiton.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by creekster

That's ALWAYS going to eb the pont, isn't it, at some l;evel? That's why we are here from both a religious point of view (mulitply and replenish) and a gneetic POV (spread genes) no matter what you do to young women most of them will still want to attract a man. I fail to see hwat is so remarkable about that observation. How we do it and how those efforts fit into our society and culture otherwsie is really the quesiton.

Right. It's a matter of whether we can get it through to our young women that that is not their *only* worth or goal in life, and if we can convince them to wait long enough to wed that they've established some of their own identity and worth outside of male attention and/or companionship.

The phenomenon of women finding their identity and worth in men is obviously not unique to this church or any other.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Give *me* a break. I doubt there's anyone else here that would deny that the endall and beall of the majority of young LDS females' existence is to procure a husband, ideally as early as possible.

Anyone who claims this is misinformed on LDS doctrine, Barbara. Preparation for a healthy marriage and family life is obviously a large part of what we teach our youth, but this "attract a man or go to hell" reductionism by you and Bruincoug gives me a great chuckle.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Tex

Anyone who claims this is misinformed on LDS doctrine, Barbara. Preparation for a healthy marriage and family life is obviously a large part of what we teach our youth, but this "attract a man or go to hell" reductionism by you and Bruincoug gives me a great chuckle.

Obviously I'm misinformed, since I was under the impression there was no hell.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Right. It's a matter of whether we can get it through to our young women that that is not their *only* worth or goal in life, and if we can convince them to wait long enough to wed that they've established some of their own identity and worth outside of male attention and/or companionship.

The phenomenon of women finding their identity and worth in men is obviously not unique to this church or any other.

that's a long road to hoe, changing instincts. Not saying it wouldn't be worth it, so that girls and women find an independent identity and then select a mate based on companionship and mutual compatibility.

Women seem to have a stronger natural instinct to couple, but I'm unable to distinguish where nature ends and culture begins.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Archaea

that's a long road to hoe, changing instincts. Not saying it wouldn't be worth it, so that girls and women find an independent identity and then select a mate based on companionship and mutual compatibility.

Women seem to have a stronger natural instinct to couple, but I'm unable to distinguish where nature ends and culture begins.

This will look rather silly coming from the typo king, but we all have our pet peeves: unless looking only to dull your blade, one hoes long rows, not roads. (you can always tell who grew up in a farming community with this one)

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Obviously I'm misinformed, since I was under the impression there was no hell.

Not for all the pretty Mormons.