Stake Conf. Topic: Sexaul Intimacy

[Surfah]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

They have learned to put all their self-worth in appearance and attention from men.

For the most part I agree. And I think that is very sad and makes me feel horrible at the times when I have looked on a woman lustfully. But at the same time I think females also perpetuate these behaviors. Look at a show like Sex and the City.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Surfah

Look at a show like Sex and the City.

Or vice presidential candidates. Or swimsuit models. Or newsanchors. Or pop singers.

I didn't attribute fault. I started to, but I deleted that part -- there are just too many contributors. I just said that somewhere along the way that's where young women are learning to put their self-esteem. And it is sad. And it's a hard cycle to break because, as you suggest, many women continue to feel that way as they get older, so they behave in ways that perpetuate the idea that attractiveness is a woman's sole worth. And the youngest women pick up on that message.

[Bruincoug]

I think that you're right Barbara (and others) -- women and girls' basing self-esteem purely on attractiveness--often sexualized attractiveness -- to men is a sad reality.

I think that it comes about, in part, from popular culture's vacuous emphasis on little else. On TV, in movies, at high school, etc., sexual appeal is king.

But, even within the church -- and among people who understand that there's more to self-worth than sexual appeal -- the self-esteem is weighed down by a desire to be sexually attractive. In a way, the church's emphases mere add pressure to be attractive to men -- rather than to achieve in ways where attractiveness be damned.

What I mean:
1. LDS girls might understand that they are daughters of God, have unique self-worth etc., BUT
2. They are also inculcated with the idea that women's highest calling is to be mothers and that celestial marriage should be their number one goal.
3. Every girl knows -- long before popular culture exaggerates it -- that physical appearance plays a strong role in dating and marriages decisions.
4. In order to achieve the goals that the church most emphasizes (and that grown-up LDS women may base their self-esteem on), LDS girls realize that the more physically attractive / sexy / beautiful one is, the greater her advantage in the dating/marriage sweepstakes. Or, in other words, "how can someone who is ugly find someone to marry in the temple and have children with?" And "If I can't find someone to marry, am I less in God's eyes?"

True, popular culture may exaggerate our emphasis on sexiness or beauty. But, Mormon values set up many girls for similar self-esteem problems.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Bruincoug

I think that you're right Barbara (and others) -- women and girls' basing self-esteem purely on attractiveness--often sexualized attractiveness -- to men is a sad reality.

I think that it comes about, in part, from popular culture's vacuous emphasis on little else. On TV, in movies, at high school, etc., sexual appeal is king.

But, even within the church -- and among people who understand that there's more to self-worth than sexual appeal -- the self-esteem is weighed down by a desire to be sexually attractive. In a way, the church's emphases mere add pressure to be attractive to men -- rather than to achieve in ways where attractiveness be damned.

What I mean:
1. LDS girls might understand that they are daughters of God, have unique self-worth etc., BUT
2. They are also inculcated with the idea that women's highest calling is to be mothers and that celestial marriage should be their number one goal.
3. Every girl knows -- long before popular culture exaggerates it -- that physical appearance plays a strong role in dating and marriages decisions.
4. In order to achieve the goals that the church most emphasizes (and that grown-up LDS women may base their self-esteem on), LDS girls realize that the more physically attractive / sexy / beautiful one is, the greater her advantage in the dating/marriage sweepstakes. Or, in other words, "how can someone who is ugly find someone to marry in the temple and have children with?" And "If I can't find someone to marry, am I less in God's eyes?"

True, popular culture may exaggerate our emphasis on sexiness or beauty. But, Mormon values set up many girls for similar self-esteem problems.

ooh. I hadn't thought about that. It's still all about the men, isn't it?

So the girls can't dress like sluts, but they find other ways of "advertising," because it still comes down to snagging a man. Interesting.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

because it still comes down to snagging a man. Interesting.

As SU likes to say (although here I mean it literally), isn't this what we are all about at a cellular level?

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by creekster

As SU likes to say (although here I mean it literally), isn't this what we are all about at a cellular level?

Human nature is the 900 lb gorilla in the room.

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

I'm imagining the elderly ladies in R.S. looking supremely uncomfortable in the back row.

Someday I will be that old lady and danimal and I will still be getting it on. Little old ladies need a little excitement in their lives too.

[FarrahWaters]

Originally Posted by marsupial

Someday I will be that old lady and danimal and I will still be getting it on. Little old ladies need a little excitement in their lives too.

Did I tell you about the Enrichment night I went to (one of the few), and they had a speaker talking about the importance of practicing Kegels for older women to stop incontinence. She then added something like , "and your husbands will thank you too." The younger women giggled and the middle-aged woman she was talking to looked flabbergasted.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

Did I tell you about the Enrichment night I went to (one of the few), and they had a speaker talking about the importance of practicing Kegels for older women to stop incontinence. She then added something like , "and your husbands will thank you too." The younger women giggled and the middle-aged woman she was talking to looked flabbergasted.

Without Kegel it's going to last a whole lot longer then any older couple would want.

[Archaea]

We like to blame culture, which certainly shares the blame, for the issues of self-esteem and provocative dress, but we also ignore nature.

It is natural for men and women, at the genetic level to seek to attract sexually attractive mates. We've seen the studies which show it's more than learned behavior, it's also genetic and instinctual. Culture follows nature, and religion tries to slow down nature and culture.

But perhaps we'd be better off understanding nature and culture and make them all our masters.