Proposition 8 take a break..we can reach our destination..but we're still a ways away

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Can you say something intelligent for once, Eintstein? It's books about the LDS Church I don't read.

Now, back on point, no one has denied nor could they deny that this is a push poll.

I'll make you a deal - I'll back off on comments about your admitted tendency to read reviews about books about the LDS church when you stop looking for things to bash about the church that you willingly left.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

They're gathering the information so they'll know whom to encourage to vote in November, and whom to leave alone.

Pac, here's where you're wrong. This is not about gathering information. It's just not. That's what the lie is.

If they wanted data there are more effective, more accurate ways to do it. I daresay no one will pay any attention to the "data" generated from this effort by a bunch of amateurs becuase it's worthless.

Why don't they just make their pitch instead of dressing it in garb of a counterfeit poll?

Now, YOhio makes the point that while this is clearly a push poll, not a poll to gather data, it's incompetent. That doesn't detract from the point that they are really doing something other than what they are saying they're doing, including to their own members.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Pac, here's where you're wrong. This is not about gathering information. It's just not. That's what the lie is.

If they wanted data there are more effective, more accurate ways to do it. I daresay no one will pay any attention to the "data" generated from this effort by a bunch of amateurs becuase it's worthless.

Why don't they just make their pitch instead of dressing it in garb of a counterfeit poll?

Now, YOhio makes the point that while this is clearly a push poll, not a poll to gather data, it's incompetent. That doesn't detract from the point that they are really doing something other than what they are saying they're doing, including to their own members.

I tend to fall into the YOhio camp (which admittedly is not as fun as falling into his arms).

I don't see this as being on par with the "would you vote for McCain if you knew he is father to an illegitimate black child" approach.

Those that spoke today in my ward mentioned mostly positives. And the negatives were described as not being overly hostile...just simple, "thanks but no thanks."

One interesting announcement in Priesthood....the folks at Protect Marriage (not sure exactly who is calling the shots) have encouraged those who do not feel inclined to walk or talk to get online and let their voices be heard on blogs, websites, etc.....we were told to leave comments and opinions. So, in a sense, I am really magnifying my calling here. Guilt: gone!

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Pac, here's where you're wrong. This is not about gathering information. It's just not. That's what the lie is.

If they wanted data there are more effective, more accurate ways to do it. I daresay no one will pay any attention to the "data" generated from this effort by a bunch of amateurs becuase it's worthless.

Why don't they just make their pitch instead of dressing it in garb of a counterfeit poll?

Now, YOhio makes the point that while this is clearly a push poll, not a poll to gather data, it's incompetent. That doesn't detract from the point that they are really doing something other than what they are saying they're doing, including to their own members.

SU, it's a steady source of entertainment for me that you, having escaped the shackles on free thought that enslave us Mormons, can be so rigid and dogmatic in your view of things LDS. First off, I bear you my testimony this particular effort really is primarily about gathering information. I know this because they did the same thing in our area for Prop 22. I saw the lists generated, and was asked to use one of them to call people prior to election (I was, uh, busy). Sure, they want to project a positive image about Prop. 8, too, But if the results weren't thought to be valuable, our ward wouldn't be asking twenty people to spend hours tabulating the data and generating calling lists of the pro-8 people (of course, this could just be cover for the evil poll).

It's cool you think that the Church is so methodical and ruthlessly efficient (NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition, or the Mormon Church's push poll juggernaut!) that this cumbersome approach MUST indicate some nefarious, hidden agenda. The Church does lots of things that aren't very efficient--this reminds of when I was a teenager working next to a prominent physician on a Church welfare farm. I asked him why he was weeding tomatoes when, with his income, he could use the money he could have earned during his time at the farm and hire about 30 laborers. He said sometimes the physical act of sacrifice and service is far more important than efficiency, and he wouldn't pay any amount of money to avoid it. Putting aside the question of whether the political stand being made is correct, mobilizing people at the grassroots level has a powerful effect on the participants.

Back on point..if this were designed to be a true push poll, they could have designed questions far more effective than the one presented. In fact, it would be hard to come up with a question that is more benign than the one they're using. And if this were a counterfeit poll, opening with "I'm here on behalf of Proposition 8" kind of detracts from the subterfuge, doesn't it?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Can you say something intelligent for once, Eintstein? It's books about the LDS Church I don't read.

Now, back on point, no one has denied nor could they deny that this is a push poll.

Using your standards, no evidence to the contrary exists, as far as I'm concerned.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

SU, it's a steady source of entertainment for me that you, having escaped the shackles on free thought that enslave us Mormons, can be so rigid and dogmatic in your view of things LDS. First off, I bear you my testimony this particular effort really is primarily about gathering information. I know this because they did the same thing in our area for Prop 22. I saw the lists generated, and was asked to use one of them to call people prior to election (I was, uh, busy). Sure, they want to project a positive image about Prop. 8, too, But if the results weren't thought to be valuable, our ward wouldn't be asking twenty people to spend hours tabulating the data and generating calling lists of the pro-8 people (of course, this could just be cover for the evil poll).

It's cool you think that the Church is so methodical and ruthlessly efficient (NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition, or the Mormon Church's push poll juggernaut!) that this cumbersome approach MUST indicate some nefarious, hidden agenda. The Church does lots of things that aren't very efficient--this reminds of when I was a teenager working next to a prominent physician on a Church welfare farm. I asked him why he was weeding tomatoes when, with his income, he could use the money he could have earned during his time at the farm and hire about 30 laborers. He said sometimes the physical act of sacrifice and service is far more important than efficiency, and he wouldn't pay any amount of money to avoid it. Putting aside the question of whether the political stand being made is correct, mobilizing people at the grassroots level has a powerful effect on the participants.

Back on point..if this were designed to be a true push poll, they could have designed questions far more effective than the one presented. In fact, it would be hard to come up with a question that is more benign than the one they're using. And if this were a counterfeit poll, opening with "I'm here on behalf of Proposition 8" kind of detracts from the subterfuge, doesn't it?

SU is right. It's a push poll.

Now if you want to argue that it is a relatively benign push poll, then that's on thing, but it IS a form of a push poll.

Instead of seeking to truly find public opinion, it seeks to influence public opinion, and actually change public opinion. Therefore it is a push poll.

[YOhio]

Isn't if funny that of all people, SU is the one full of righteous indignation about a push poll. He is the king of CG push polls. As he has said so many times, we are our truest selves here. Had he stayed in the church, he would have made Tex look liberal.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Isn't if funny that of all people, SU is the one full of righteous indignation about a push poll. He is the king of CG push polls. As he has said so many times, we are our truest selves here. Had he stayed in the church, he would have made Tex look liberal.

I think it is funny that I was the first to use the word benign in this thread, and since then, SU, PAC, mikewaters, and YOhio have copied me.

How binary of all of you!

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I think it is funny that I was the first to use the word benign in this thread, and since then, SU, PAC, mikewaters, and YOhio have copied me.

The only reason any of us used that word is because we knew you'd react this way. We're all laughing at you big time.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I think it is funny that I was the first to use the word benign in this thread, and since then, SU, PAC, mikewaters, and YOhio have copied me.

How binary of all of you!

From Mr. "oh this is a soft sell, maybe this is something I can do" principled guy.