Could we get Pastor Wright a reality TV show

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Tex

Don't surrender to his bad analogy, il Pad. The premise is terrible. Wright/Obama is not BY/il Pad, and not just because you aren't running for President.

Ridiculous.

I'm not surrendering. I'm pointing out what I thought would be the obvious - that nothing I do as Joe Average citizen will shape policy for the entire country.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

The problem with the Wright/Obama connection is derived from the closeness of the relationship compounded by the radical and outspoken over-the-pulpit nature of his views.

Thus LDS comparison is pretty poor. I can hardly think of a General Conference or even a sacrament meeting where I've heard political rhetoric that in any degree approximates what Wright said, especially from anyone I've had a personal relationship with. Bad example. As to McCain seeking the endorsement, Reinhard rightly notes:



Which is why, parenthetically, the Hamas endorsement of Obama is such a problem for him. It's not that Obama supports or is sympathetic to Hamas in any way ... it's that they like him.

In any case, the fact that the media has not picked up on the Hagee "issue" despite being so Obama-friendly is a bellwether that there's no "there" there.

Oh please. The "closeness of the relationship" distinguishes Hagee from Wright? Fine- then perhaps we should compare to the Keating 5. Would that be a close relationship that concerns you? Of course there we had actual impropriety by McCain whereas with Obama the impropriety is only alleged on the part of his pastor. Odd you haven't found that troubling at all.

And the media hasn't focused on Hagee because the media hasn't focused on McCain at all. He is an afterthought at this point. That will change as Obama emerges as the sole nominee.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Maybe someone should check to see if Obama ever actually attended this church he claims he was a member of.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355795,00.html

Someone should also go through each edition of every church magazine the LDS church has published and ascribe all sentiments therein to Romney. Clearly he should be aware of all of that.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

Don't surrender to his bad analogy, il Pad. The premise is terrible. Wright/Obama is not BY/il Pad, and not just because you aren't running for President.

Ridiculous.

Why? Because you say it is terrible? You raise your hand (and have twice a year for most of your life) to sustain the church's leaders. You make a physical manifestation of your support for them and their views, right? You also testify that the scriptures are true, including the section on polygamy in D&C. Right? Ergo, you are a polygamist who supports racist leaders with bad judgment.

Or is it more nuanced than that?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Why? Because you say it is terrible? You raise your hand (and have twice a year for most of your life) to sustain the church's leaders. You make a physical manifestation of your support for them and their views, right? You also testify that the scriptures are true, including the section on polygamy in D&C. Right? Ergo, you are a polygamist who supports racist leaders with bad judgment.

Or is it more nuanced than that?

I don't have a personal, close relationship with any of the prophets. That's just the most glaring of the many points that make your analogy stupid.

Last I checked, Thomas Monson was not on Romney's "spiritual advisory committee."

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't have a personal, close relationship with any of the prophets. That's just the most glaring of the many points that make your analogy stupid.

Last I checked, Thomas Monson was not on Romney's "spiritual advisory committee."

lol! Nice- reduce the entire issue to one of having a close relationship and then completely ignoring his close relationship with the Keating 5 as irrelevant. Does it hurt your brain to try to spin this into something relevant?

Why is a relationship important to you? Because, I would assume, it suggests Obama may endorse some of Wright's views, right?

So why isn't Romney's express endorsement of his church leaders of equal concern? The relationship is only important to the extent we can extrapolate Obama shares Wright's positions. Romney raising his hand to the square and sustaining his church leaders is an even clearer endorsement of positions, is it not? What about testifying about scriptures that contain covenants regarding polygamy? What about purchasing a copy of Mormon Doctrine (I feel fairly confident we can assume he owns a copy)? Why don't those acts suggest support of radical positions? Or are you going to pretend that support can only be verified by friendship? You are totally full of it.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

lol! Nice- reduce the entire issue to one of having a close relationship and then completely ignoring his close relationship with the Keating 5 as irrelevant. Does it hurt your brain to try to spin this into something relevant?

Why is a relationship important to you? Because, I would assume, it suggests Obama may endorse some of Wright's views, right?

So why isn't Romney's express endorsement of his church leaders of equal concern? The relationship is only important to the extent we can extrapolate Obama shares Wright's positions. Romney raising his hand to the square and sustaining his church leaders is an even clearer endorsement of positions, is it not? What about testifying about scriptures that contain covenants regarding polygamy? What about purchasing a copy of Mormon Doctrine (I feel fairly confident we can assume he owns a copy)? Why don't those acts suggest support of radical positions? Or are you going to pretend that support can only be verified by friendship? You are totally full of it.

The discussion about what Mormon doctrine means to Mormon politicians is certainly one we could have. But the pretense that it resembles Wright/Obama is silly, and I think you know it.

Also, your Keating 5 comment came from left field.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

The discussion about what Mormon doctrine means to Mormon politicians is certainly one we could have. But the pretense that it resembles Wright/Obama is silly, and I think you know it.

Also, your Keating 5 comment came from left field.

Keating 5 didn't come from left field. You are talking about relationships that make us question the character of the candidate. So why are the Keating 5 not relevant? 4 US senators with close friendships with McCain (and McCain himself) were accused of corruption. McCain was personally close to Keating. But I guess it must be different because Keating didn't baptize McCain's kid? Right.

You want there to be a bigger distinction between Mormon politicians and their church and Obama/Wright than there actually is. Romney was criticized for the apparently racist views of his church's leaders. Is that fair? Romney was a prominent leader IN the church. Why shouldn't the statements of church leaders be held against him in your strange world?

I think you realize that the criticisms of both Romney and Obama are unfair and absurd. You are grasping at air.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Keating 5 didn't come from left field. You are talking about relationships that make us question the character of the candidate. So why are the Keating 5 not relevant? 4 US senators with close friendships with McCain (and McCain himself) were accused of corruption. McCain was personally close to Keating. But I guess it must be different because Keating didn't baptize McCain's kid? Right.

I haven't said anything about the Keating 5 one way or the other. It is completely out of left field.

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You want there to be a bigger distinction between Mormon politicians and their church and Obama/Wright than there actually is. Romney was criticized for the apparently racist views of his church's leaders. Is that fair? Romney was a prominent leader IN the church. Why shouldn't the statements of church leaders be held against him in your strange world?

I think you realize that the criticisms of both Romney and Obama are unfair and absurd. You are grasping at air.

And I think you're groping at absurd analogies trying to find a reason for Jeremiah Wright to be irrelevant. Had Mitt Romney sat in General Conference for 20 years and listened to Gordon Hinckley spout constant racist tripe, cultivated a personal relationship with him, and then invited Hinckley to be on his spiritual advisory committee, you might have an argument.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

I haven't said anything about the Keating 5 one way or the other. It is completely out of left field.



And I think you're groping at absurd analogies trying to find a reason for Jeremiah Wright to be irrelevant. Had Mitt Romney sat in General Conference for 20 years and listened to Gordon Hinckley spout constant racist tripe, cultivated a personal relationship with him, and then invited Hinckley to be on his spiritual advisory committee, you might have an argument.

I get it.

Attending church for 20 years and having children baptized by pastor: close relationship to statements of church leader.

Attending church entire life, holding prominent leadership role in church, sustaining church leaders twice per year for life, serving mission to convert people to church: no close relationship to statements of church leader.

Yeah- makes sense.

Give it up. Neither is relevant, and you are working too hard to make it relevant at the expense of your own church.

And why is Keating out of left field? McCain had a close relationship with those implicated, and he had a close relationship to Keating (which almost got him expelled from the Senate). Are you only concerned about friendships with crazy pastors and nobody else?