Sad Reminder of the dangers of cycling

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by creekster

A good but sobering post. I guess I should clarify somethig here: Urging prosecution is not equivalent to urging any given sentence. The dirver in BG's example should be prosecuted, in my mind, but maybe there can be an allowance in the sentence for leniency due to circumstance. But all of these poeple need ot be prosecuted, IMO

Are you referring to the young mother driver? Either way, I would tend to agree.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

Are you referring to the young mother driver? Either way, I would tend to agree.

Yes.

[MikeWaters]

Sadly, this is the attitude of many people:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...=World_3753705

And that's why Tex's attitude pisses us off.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by creekster

Okay. Assuming we don't want to have vigilante groups, apart from prosecuting offenders, how else do we prevent it?

I don't know all the solutions. Prosecuting offenders is certainly one of them. But not all offenses are equal.

Originally Posted by creekster

No I'm not. You said "Knee-jerk calling every cyclist death "murder" is indeed hyperbolic." Nice argument, except no one did that.

I think they did. You think they didn't. We are at an impasse.

Originally Posted by creekster

Your refernced post says you would not find a prosecution to be a miscarriage of justice. SO if they prosecute a guy that killed two people by driving his car on the wrong side of the road you wouldn't find it per se objhectionable? Gee, now that's generous. You still can't bring yourself to say whether or not you think this guy, under the reported facts, should be prosecuted.

I have acknowleged he can be prosecuted. I have questioned whether doing so is in the best interests of all involved. Can you not "bring yourself" to see the difference?

Originally Posted by bluegoose

I am torn as to how I feel about the situation. Part of me wouldn't want to see a young single mother in jail (or whatever the appropriate consequences may be). The other part of me would like to see an example made of her. It could have just as easily been me instead of Sheryl Mann and now my wife would be a widow and my kids fatherless.

...

He should be made to pay for his damages. He killed 2 innocent people, and a third will be extremely lucky to survive. Don't try to tell me that he will pay enough just by his emotional anguish for the rest of his life. More importantly, don't try to tell the victims families or the (hopefully) surviving victim. None of them will ever be the same, thanks to his carelessness.

And this is the problem that I have with the attitudes in this thread. It's not really about justice. It's a lot about anger. It's about making someone else suffer as much as they can, because of the suffering they (maybe accidentally) caused on others. It's not just about punishment; it's about kicking them repeatedly while they are down, and filming it for others to watch.

People who "buzz" cyclists are wrong. People who are careless in their cars when cyclists are on the road excercise poor judgment. But there are a lot of accidents caused by both, and not just with cyclists. A lot of damage is done and lives are lost with careless driving in general. In fact, I'm willing to bet car-cyclist deaths are in the extreme minority compared to other kinds of vehicular homicide.

Running around with a personal guillotine, ready to exact your pound of flesh for each of them, is extremely unhealthy in my view.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Sadly, this is the attitude of many people:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...=World_3753705

And that's why Tex's attitude pisses us off.

*Sigh* I do not share that attitude, Mike.

[Archaea]

Tex wrote:

And this is the problem that I have with the attitudes in this thread. It's not really about justice. It's a lot about anger. It's about making someone else suffer as much as they can, because of the suffering they (maybe accidentally) caused on others. It's not just about punishment; it's about kicking them repeatedly while they are down, and filming it for others to watch.

People who "buzz" cyclists are wrong. People who are careless in their cars when cyclists are on the road excercise poor judgment. But there are a lot of accidents caused by both, and not just with cyclists. A lot of damage is done and lives are lost with careless driving in general. In fact, I'm willing to bet car-cyclist deaths are in the extreme minority compared to other kinds of vehicular homicide.

Running around with a personal guillotine, ready to exact your pound of flesh for each of them, is extremely unhealthy in my view

It is about justice in our view as cyclists.

We really don't want vengeance, as nothing can bring back the dead. However, we want this sort of senseless killing to stop or to be reduced, and unless a public message, namely, even cops who kill cyclists will be prosecuted so watch out, your reluctance to join in, means the public prosecution serves the public best. Nothing will aid the families.

It is unimaginable how you can have ANY reluctance to prosecute under these circumstances. I can fathom NO benefit of not prosecuting in order to protect cyclists.

You're trying to argue mercy, but I wager you only feel this way, because he is a cop. If it were a campaign director for Hillary Clinton, you would have no reservations prosecuting. (Neither would I, that person would deserve double punishment).

Yes, you were sooooo magnanimous in acknowledging prosecution is possible, but you are afraid to prosecute anybody from government so you inject mercy when you wouldn't for others.

Cyclists need protection from these idiots and carelessness.

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

II have acknowleged he can be prosecuted. I have questioned whether doing so is in the best interests of all involved. Can you not "bring yourself" to see the difference?

Isn't this what Creekster was saying the whole time? That you're questioning whether or not it's best that the guy be prosecuted? And that he thinks that's an unsympathetic sentiment?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Isn't this what Creekster was saying the whole time? That you're questioning whether or not it's best that the guy be prosecuted? And that he thinks that's an unsympathetic sentiment?

What's to question in this instance, that's my question?

I can see no reluctance under the circumstances in prosecuting. That sympathy is why Tex is being criticized.

[creekster]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...H7DF.DTL&tsp=1

THe guy apparently said he fell asleep. A few hours into his shift, patrolling in his car, he falls asleep. SO, Tex, is this criminal? Should it be prosecuted? Or do we just say "Hey, stuff happens, don't let the SOB's get you down"?

This whole thing makes me sick.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by creekster

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...H7DF.DTL&tsp=1

THe guy apparently said he fell asleep. A few hours into his shift, patrolling in his car, he falls asleep. SO, Tex, is this criminal? Should it be prosecuted? Or do we just say "Hey, stuff happens, don't let the SOB's get you down"?

This whole thing makes me sick.

That was my guess. It's awful for all involved, including the officer. The thing about many of these accidents is that any of us could have been either person. We've all had moments of inattention while driving that could have been costly if we had been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I once pulled a long shift at the sawmill when I was 18 and fell asleep driving home. I didn't even realize I was that kind of tired, I just knew I wanted to get home and get to bed. I woke up in the fast lane after falling asleep in the slow lane and I was headed for the median at 70 mph. I was shocked that such a thing could actually happen so fast. I feel very fortunate that I didn't hurt anyone that day. I've got no problem with prosecuting folks when incidents like these happen, but I'm not convinced that it will change anything as far as cyclists getting hit. I think the vast majority of those incidents have to do with momentary lapses of attention in a very unlucky moment of time.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...H7DF.DTL&tsp=1

THe guy apparently said he fell asleep. A few hours into his shift, patrolling in his car, he falls asleep. SO, Tex, is this criminal? Should it be prosecuted? Or do we just say "Hey, stuff happens, don't let the SOB's get you down"?

This whole thing makes me sick.

His comment, "MY life is over; MY career is over."

He sure seem concerned about his slaughtered victims.