National Health Care

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by tooblue

You work in hospital admin ... expecting you to be objective is like inviting a CIA director into our discussions on Water boarding and expecting him/her to be objective.

Well, you have a tradeoff of perhaps a little less objectivity for a truckload of less ignorance.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

What % of US uninsureds voluntarily self-insure because they either don't want to pay for the premiums or deem themselves to be sufficiently good risks that they don't feel the premiums are worth the coverage; even though they could afford to pay for insurance?

I dare say not as many as you are hoping ... for if that were the case the entire situation wouldn't be as dire as it is.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

You make a good point and definitely being uninsured as you note is a factor in the mortality rate. It however, is not the only factor. Tooblue can go off about how crappy the US system is but the fact still remains. For most of the people its the best healthcare system in the world. Are there ways where we can improve? Definitely, I just don't think the government ie increased taxation is the way to do that.

The simple fact of the matter is IT IS NOT the best health care system in the world precisely becasue is only benefits, at best, 25% of the US population!

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by tooblue

The simple fact of the matter is IT IS NOT the best health care system in the world precisely becasue is only benefits, at best, 25% of the US population!

25%? Baseless hyperbole.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, you have a tradeoff of perhaps a little less objectivity for a truckload of less ignorance.

It may be a tradeoff but it's not a good one. And it's beyond arrogant to suggest that most if not all of the other participants in this thread are ignorant.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

For most of the people its the best healthcare system in the world.

I don't know. It's interesting that we all have that impression. According to WHO we rank at the bottom of the barrel in nearly every quantifiable measure of system quality. I think it's true to say we have available the best health care providers and provisions in the world. But that's not the same as the best system. The system is the means of distributing access to those providers/provisions to the people, and to that end we don't measure up very well.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

25%? Baseless hyperbole.

Based upon the numbers bandied about here it's a reasonble off the cuff guestimate. And just how much of this discussion have you read?

[MikeWaters]

How many moms work fulltime in the workforce solely to ensure that the family has health insurance?

One can make the argument that guaranteed health insurance would be family-friend, and entrepreneur-friendly, and cheaper.

[BarbaraGordon]

Archaea didn't take me up on my offer, but for interested parties, here are the review articles I found that are available without subscription. With the exception of the Kaiser study, which was published only through the foundation, all of these were published in respected medical journals.

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/Full-Report.pdf
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/Briefing-Charts.pdf

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...nnals.1425.007

http://web.mac.com/allenweeks1/iWeb/...0Uninsured.pdf

http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/conte...24statbite.gif

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...rint/118/2/577


And here's some interesting data on pediatric healthcare in Quebec. As a parent, something about this chart gives me the willies:
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transfor...aediatric.html

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

I don't know. It's interesting that we all have that impression. According to WHO we rank at the bottom of the barrel in nearly every quantifiable measure of system quality. I think it's true to say we have available the best health care providers and provisions in the world. But that's not the same as the best system. The system is the means of distributing access to those providers/provisions to the people, and to that end we don't measure up very well.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. If access is the only thing or the most important thing to measure a health system by then I guess you are right. I however, think that it is only a component of determining what the best system is.