Black Mormons Straddle Two Worlds - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Sleeping in EQ · 06-02-2008, 01:09 PM

There are a few factual mistakes in this article, but it's obvious that Tim Townsend at the Saint Louis Post-Dispatch is trying very hard to be accurate and fair. As the SLPD has a healthy circulation, tens of thounsands of African Americans in the Saint Louis area are reading about the Mormons this morning.

This is what responsible reporting looks like, just in case you've forgotten:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...0?OpenDocument

Hopefully the MP in the Saint Louis area has the good sense to inform his missionaries. It would be even better if he's thinking about how he can improve the ways the Church reaches out to African Americans.

I've long been embarassed with the way the Church has treated the 1978 declaration. Whether it was making sure an article criticizing interracial marriage was included with it in the June 17, 1978 issue of the Church News, failing to repudiate the "curse" teachings (or even better, using them to teach about the fallibility of men and the complexities of racial and cultural difference in the Church), or long-time Chuch members who are wholly ignorant of their own organization's historic racism, Declaration 2 is the addition to the scriptures that is rarely mentioned and discussed in Church meetings.

MikeWaters · 06-02-2008, 01:20 PM

Our SP gave a talk on it, in a way, he used the SWK bio as his source.

But it was the pretty standard version of events. I don't recall any repudiation of past beliefs. Maybe there was a general one. Can't remember.

This really is a case, as I have mentioned before, where members have usurped the prophets and taken the lead. I think the prophets feel hemmed in, that they can't criticize the actions of past GAs. Whereas members are better able to look at the events objectively and call it for what it is.

For example, in a press conference, I don't think you could find a GA to criticize Delbert Stapely's letter to Romney, but by golly, you'll find members here who will criticize it.

It's a matter of educating yourself, and then to be willing to stand up and say something when a falsehood is uttered as doctrine.

ChinoCoug · 06-02-2008, 01:34 PM

I had a landlord who was a Ghanaian sister who served in that mission. The MP had her doing outreach most of the time, speaking at events, etc.

RC Vikings · 06-02-2008, 02:23 PM

said Marvin Perkins, a Mormon and co-author of the book "Blacks in the Scriptures." "We tore down the wall, but we didn't clean up streets afterward."

Well put.

scottie · 06-02-2008, 02:43 PM

A few things about Official Declaration 2 that catch my eye:

- "In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church." Does anyone here know if black sisters could go through the temple before the 1978 "revelation"?

- "Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness." I'm sure I'm reading too much into this, but I still wonder -- why did they feel it necessary (in the same paragraph) to instruct priesthood leaders to carefully interview the black brethren? Brothers and sisters, we're now allowing all worthy males to be ordained to the priesthood, but let me remind you bishops and stake presidents to be sure you interview them thoroughly.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/od/2

BYU71 · 06-02-2008, 03:14 PM

Having grown up in the church and having dealt with a lot of doctrinal/cultural things that were said and done that I disagreed with, I have some empathy for Obama and his continued attendance at Trinity church for 20 years.

MikeWaters · 06-02-2008, 03:17 PM

I have heard that black women could not go to the temple before 1978.

scottie · 06-02-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I have heard that black women could not go to the temple before 1978.

I'd have to think that's right, but OD2 seems to specifically refer to males. I wonder if black sisters felt it was too ambiguous.

MikeWaters · 06-02-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottie

I'd have to think that's right, but OD2 seems to specifically refer to males. I wonder if black sisters felt it was too ambiguous.

all 10 of them?

BYU71 · 06-02-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I have heard that black women could not go to the temple before 1978.

I know when we were in the mission field we were instructed to not teach blacks unless they sought us out. We had a different door approach we were to use if a black person answered the door. No asking if they would like to learn more.

That and being in cities that burned due to race riots shaped my bias's that took a while for me to overcome.

06-02-2008, 01:09 PM	#1
Sleeping in EQ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto Posts: 3,085	Black Mormons Straddle Two Worlds There are a few factual mistakes in this article, but it's obvious that Tim Townsend at the Saint Louis Post-Dispatch is trying very hard to be accurate and fair. As the SLPD has a healthy circulation, tens of thounsands of African Americans in the Saint Louis area are reading about the Mormons this morning. This is what responsible reporting looks like, just in case you've forgotten: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...0?OpenDocument Hopefully the MP in the Saint Louis area has the good sense to inform his missionaries. It would be even better if he's thinking about how he can improve the ways the Church reaches out to African Americans. I've long been embarassed with the way the Church has treated the 1978 declaration. Whether it was making sure an article criticizing interracial marriage was included with it in the June 17, 1978 issue of the Church News, failing to repudiate the "curse" teachings (or even better, using them to teach about the fallibility of men and the complexities of racial and cultural difference in the Church), or long-time Chuch members who are wholly ignorant of their own organization's historic racism, Declaration 2 is the addition to the scriptures that is rarely mentioned and discussed in Church meetings. __________________ "Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 06-02-2008 at 01:38 PM.

06-02-2008, 01:34 PM	#3
ChinoCoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NOVA Posts: 3,005	I had a landlord who was a Ghanaian sister who served in that mission. The MP had her doing outreach most of the time, speaking at events, etc. __________________ 太初有道

06-02-2008, 02:23 PM	#4
RC Vikings Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rexburg, Idaho Posts: 2,236	said Marvin Perkins, a Mormon and co-author of the book "Blacks in the Scriptures." "We tore down the wall, but we didn't clean up streets afterward." Well put. __________________ "I always rode to my limit. If I won by three minutes, that's because I couldn't make four." Eddy Merckx

06-02-2008, 01:20 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,367	Our SP gave a talk on it, in a way, he used the SWK bio as his source. But it was the pretty standard version of events. I don't recall any repudiation of past beliefs. Maybe there was a general one. Can't remember. This really is a case, as I have mentioned before, where members have usurped the prophets and taken the lead. I think the prophets feel hemmed in, that they can't criticize the actions of past GAs. Whereas members are better able to look at the events objectively and call it for what it is. For example, in a press conference, I don't think you could find a GA to criticize Delbert Stapely's letter to Romney, but by golly, you'll find members here who will criticize it. It's a matter of educating yourself, and then to be willing to stand up and say something when a falsehood is uttered as doctrine.

06-02-2008, 02:43 PM	#5
scottie Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 525	A few things about Official Declaration 2 that catch my eye: - "In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church." Does anyone here know if black sisters could go through the temple before the 1978 "revelation"? - "Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness." I'm sure I'm reading too much into this, but I still wonder -- why did they feel it necessary (in the same paragraph) to instruct priesthood leaders to carefully interview the black brethren? Brothers and sisters, we're now allowing all worthy males to be ordained to the priesthood, but let me remind you bishops and stake presidents to be sure you interview them thoroughly. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/od/2

06-02-2008, 03:14 PM	#6
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	Having grown up in the church and having dealt with a lot of doctrinal/cultural things that were said and done that I disagreed with, I have some empathy for Obama and his continued attendance at Trinity church for 20 years.

06-02-2008, 03:17 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,367	I have heard that black women could not go to the temple before 1978.