What were the prophesies of GBH?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by Adam

I think you are missing the logical chain in the Mosiah verses quoted.

Seers interpret ancient records via the U&T. All seers are also prophets and revelators.

It does not say that all prophets and revelators are necessarily seers.

And since I have run a marathon I am a man.

I'm not missing the logical chain at all. A seer CAN translate using the Urim and Thummim. That doesn't mean he MUST translate in order to be a seer.

Check out the last verse that you quoted. That seems to be the definition of a seer. Just look at the word "seer." A "runner" is one who runs; a "writer" is one who writes; a "seer" is one who sees. And in the sense herein used, a "seer" is one who sees things otherwise hidden that God reveals to him. He can use a Urim and Thummim to perform in that role, but that doesn't make the U&T the exclusive means, nor are ancient texts the exclusive things seen.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

You are in serious denial dude.

Mosiah 8 says someone who looks through the U&T is called a seer. Then the last verse I quoted says a seer can also prophesy. You try to turn that around to fit the modern usage. This is dishonest. I have no problem with a modern usage, but lets admit it is different then the scriptural one.

Is it your position that one cannot, under any circumstanace, be a seer unless he is using a U&T, or stone, to translate ancient records? This is an honest question. To me, I don't see how you get that from the verses in Mosiah. A seer sees. This is, I think, an interesting insight into how translation under these circumstances might work, but I do nto see the Mosiah passage as suggesting the ONLY way to qualify as a seer is to translate ancient records. WHat happens when they are all translated? No more seers, I guess.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by creekster

Is it your position that one cannot, under any circumstanace, be a seer unless he is using a U&T, or stone, to translate ancient records? This is an honest question. To me, I don't see how you get that from the verses in Mosiah. A seer sees. This is, I think, an interesting insight into how translation under these circumstances might work, but I do nto see the Mosiah passage as suggesting the ONLY way to qualify as a seer is to translate ancient records. WHat happens when they are all translated? No more seers, I guess.

What the Mosiah passage DOES say is that if a man uses the U&T to translate, he is called a seer. It also says that a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come. Is ALL of that to be done solely and exclusively through the U&T and translation of ancient documents?

The Mosiah passage says that the use of the U&T to translate is a right that belongs solely to a seer. If a man is commanded to use them to translate, he is a seer. Now you, Adam, are saying that this is the ONLY function of a seer according to scripture. Upon reading verse 17, I find it quite clear that it is but one of several functions he may perform, and the U&T but one of the tools he may use.

And furthermore, I have not accused you of dishonesty on the grounds of our disagreement, and I'll thank you to extend the same courtesy to me.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Adam

You are in serious denial dude.

Mosiah 8 says someone who looks through the U&T is called a seer. Then the last verse I quoted says a seer can also prophesy. You try to turn that around to fit the modern usage. This is dishonest. I have no problem with a modern usage, but lets admit it is different then the scriptural one.

Your narrow reading of Mosiah has been soundly dismantled and you have the gaul to suggest American is in denial?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Your narrow reading of Mosiah has been soundly dismantled and you have the gaul to suggest American is in denial?

I think his Gaul can be divided into three parts . . . but he's apologized; I'd just as soon leave it be.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by All-American

I think his Gaul can be divided into three parts . . . but he's apologized; I'd just as soon leave it be.

Understood.

[Mormon Red Death]

Did I not provide two instances where he "saw"?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Adam

Hyrum points our the seer is a specifically defined term in the standard works and a title that cannot honestly be applied to any of the current "prophets seers or revelators" and he is twice attacked rather viciously. Hyrum, you may now take your victory lap.

He was attacked more for his style than his substance.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

Hyrum points our the seer is a specifically defined term in the standard works and a title that cannot honestly be applied to any of the current "prophets seers or revelators" and he is twice attacked rather viciously. Hyrum, you may now take your victory lap.

First, I find it amusing that your arrogance extends to the point that you find yourself fit to be arbiter of whom should take a victory lap. That is very endearing, almost as cute as using the names of your children to show your piety and devotion (biblical names? must be a faithful guy).

Second, you know very well that this was not Hyrum's point. Hyrum has no interest in whether or not the mosiah 8 definition of seer is alive today. He wants only to ridicule and belittle and mock and I find him tedious and redundant and worth very little effort. If you want to make a point about seers, go ahead, but riding the back of his argument makes you look like a fool on a jack-ass.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

Are you saying God has lost the power to speak? Are you saying we no longer need his warnings via prophesies? Are you saying he is withholding his warnings via prophesies for an unnamed reason?

Are you saying that there is a steady rate of prophecies dribbling out of heaven and if we are not getting them at that rate that we must not have a prophet? Give me a break. You understand exactly what I am saying and you are trying to be misleading here and you know it. DO you deign to understand the mind of God so as to know exactly when, how and how frequently he might choose to reveal anything? If so, then start your own church, which it what it sometimes seems you think ought to happen.